99 NOs, 1 YES: How Two Broke Writers Created a $200M Rom-Com Hit | Kinolime Podcast Episode 12

Show Notes

The video features a conversation between the hosts of the Kino Lime podcast and their guest, screenwriter Fred Lebow, who discusses his experiences breaking into Hollywood, the realities of the film industry, and the lessons learned throughout his career.The Path to Screenwriting Unexpected Beginnings: Lebow originally planned to be an environmental lawyer but struggled with test-taking. After a professor noticed his cinematic writing style in a Western civilization exam, he shifted his focus toward film. Education and Mentorship: While attending NYU graduate school, Lebow learned from industry professionals and developed his writing style by analyzing his favorite movies rather than relying on technical screenwriting manuals. Perseverance: Lebow emphasizes that success in the industry is 100% about perseverance and having a "steel stomach" to handle constant rejection. He notes that writers may face "99 no's" but only need one "yes" to change their career. Professional Success and Challenges Developing "While You Were Sleeping": The film’s original concept involved a man falling in love with a woman in a coma, which was consistently rejected as "predatory". A suggestion from Meg Ryan’s production company to reverse the roles—making it a lonely woman in love with a man in a coma—solved the ethical dilemma and helped get the project made. The Reality of the Industry: Lebow reflects on the "bittersweet" nature of success, noting that he sold his first major script just days after his father, his biggest fan, passed away. He also candidly discusses the difficulties of pitching projects, the influence of industry politics, and his past struggles with "arrogance" regarding his own work on projects like Stanley's Cup. Industry Perspectives Modern vs. Past Era: Lebow observes that there were more "guardrails" in the film industry during the 90s, with more eyes and development stages dedicated to scripts compared to the modern need for rapid content production. Advocacy for New Writers: Lebow praises the platform Kino Lime provides for new writers, noting that it offers a unique, groundbreaking opportunity for amateurs to submit scripts and have their work professionally reviewed.

Full Transcript

[00:00]

So everybody we pitched that to,

[00:02]

said you guys are creeps.

[00:03]

You creeps and you're predatory.

[00:05]

But then we pitched it to Meg Ryan's company

[00:08]

and she at that time was like one of the first

[00:10]

who are hottest romcom people.

[00:13]

And she was the one that made this suggestion

[00:16]

she goes, why don't you turn it around?

[00:18]

Oh.

[00:19]

And it won't be predatory and you guys might not be creepy.

[00:22]

Make it a woman, a woman who falls in love

[00:27]

with a man in a coma.

[00:28]

Wow.

[00:38]

All right, hello, Kino Limeers.

[00:40]

Welcome to another Kino Lime with Danny.

[00:43]

I don't know.

[00:44]

Every day at 7 o'clock.

[00:45]

Yeah, John's off the building.

[00:47]

I know.

[00:48]

It's now the Danny show.

[00:49]

Yes, precisely.

[00:50]

We, as always, we have an amazing show.

[00:52]

Again, every week we say this.

[00:53]

But we do today in studio,

[00:55]

we have Fred Lebo, the writer of while you're sleeping.

[00:58]

Co writer.

[00:59]

Co writer of while you're sleeping.

[01:01]

See, I love that ethical right there.

[01:02]

Co writer of while you're sleeping in studio

[01:05]

to talk everything from movie, screenwriting, Hollywood,

[01:08]

life in general.

[01:10]

But as always, John Schram had a development here at Kino Lime.

[01:12]

Danny Murray.

[01:14]

See.

[01:15]

And we got Fred.

[01:16]

Fred, welcome.

[01:17]

Thanks for coming in today.

[01:18]

Thank you.

[01:19]

Fred is my writing mentor.

[01:21]

Whether he knows it or not, he's been pivotal in my journey

[01:24]

as a writer.

[01:24]

I owe a lot to this man sitting here today.

[01:27]

So Fred, it's always great to have you to talk.

[01:30]

But you've been a wealth of knowledge to me.

[01:32]

And I'm excited that you get to share your wealth with everybody.

[01:35]

And you've been very good to me and my family as well,

[01:38]

which I appreciate over the years.

[01:40]

And you've been a good friend.

[01:41]

Oh, I love that.

[01:43]

Tell us a little bit about what your thoughts have been

[01:45]

about Kino Lime so far.

[01:46]

Like I said to you before, when I was starting out,

[01:50]

there was nothing like this.

[01:52]

There might have been everybody, whether you

[01:55]

were in film school or not, was looking for screenplay

[01:59]

competitions where you couldn't send a script.

[02:03]

And at best, there might be a grand prize of $20,000

[02:09]

or you get to meet a manager of an agent or a manager

[02:16]

or a producer.

[02:18]

And when you think about it, these

[02:20]

are the things that you're going to be what you guys are doing.

[02:25]

It's night and day.

[02:27]

I mean, as I said to you, I think everybody who works here

[02:32]

that stays here, not telling you who to employ or not to employ.

[02:37]

But I think you've all been given a free winning lottery ticket.

[02:43]

I think the concept of this company is absolutely brilliant

[02:48]

just to know that there's a company that if you actually

[02:52]

enter your script into it and win the competition,

[02:54]

they'll make your movie.

[02:56]

That's groundbreaking.

[02:57]

I've never seen anything like that.

[03:00]

And the fact that you guys already have two movies

[03:02]

that you're in pre-production with is amazing.

[03:07]

And all you need is really just to be on the map

[03:13]

and have people see that the movies were really made.

[03:17]

And once that happens, you guys are, you know,

[03:21]

it's clear sailing.

[03:22]

I just, this company is going to, as far as I'm always wrong,

[03:27]

but I don't think I'll be.

[03:30]

I think in this case, I think I'm going to be right.

[03:32]

I think you guys are just in a terrific place.

[03:35]

Well, thank you for the kind of words.

[03:36]

We love hearing it.

[03:37]

Someone who's been in the business for as long as you

[03:39]

have and from, you know, hit movies

[03:41]

to working with the biggest producers and directors in the game.

[03:44]

But before we get in, part of what KinoLamb does

[03:46]

and why what we're building here is to give access,

[03:50]

to give people a shot, like you're saying,

[03:51]

is a writer nowadays like, how do you break in?

[03:54]

But let's hear about your story about how you wanted

[03:57]

to become a writer and how you broke in.

[03:59]

Maybe tell us a little bit about.

[04:00]

Well, my real story is that I wanted

[04:04]

to be an environmental lawyer.

[04:07]

And I studied political science at Hofstra University.

[04:14]

And I did so badly on my LCTs that I don't think anybody

[04:19]

had a lowest score in North America.

[04:22]

I mean, that's how badly my, and I was a good student,

[04:25]

but I just couldn't ever be a decent test taker.

[04:29]

And I had no other skills.

[04:32]

I couldn't do plumbing and electrical,

[04:34]

which would have been great.

[04:36]

If I had a skill like that, I would have been very happy.

[04:39]

It's something to commend.

[04:42]

But I had no skills.

[04:44]

And there were many reasons, little reasons

[04:49]

that I got into it.

[04:50]

But the final reason that pushed me was a pretty funny story.

[04:56]

I never studied when I was at Hofstra.

[04:59]

I'd cut class.

[05:01]

I don't know if this is good to be saying.

[05:03]

That's right.

[05:04]

It's good to be honest.

[05:05]

But at the end of the semester, I would always

[05:09]

read the whole textbook in one night and try

[05:12]

to memorize everything in my head.

[05:14]

But I was if I walked into the class

[05:21]

and anybody asked me a question, this was a Western civilization

[05:25]

class.

[05:26]

If anybody asked me a question about what I memorized,

[05:30]

I short-circumulated.

[05:32]

And the class was about John Locke and Russo

[05:37]

and all these philosophers.

[05:39]

And someone asked me a question about Russo.

[05:43]

And that was it.

[05:43]

I imploded.

[05:45]

And I knew I couldn't remember anything

[05:48]

that I memorized.

[05:50]

So when I took the blue pamphlet out and everybody's written,

[05:55]

I knew I couldn't do anything.

[05:56]

So I wrote about all the gas bags in the class

[06:01]

that I couldn't stand.

[06:03]

And I just wrote really stupid things

[06:08]

that I didn't like about them.

[06:10]

And no, I did like one guy who I'd use his bowling,

[06:14]

his head is a bowling bowl, and roll it down the lane.

[06:18]

I'd probably get it if I got a strike.

[06:20]

I'd be whatever it was.

[06:21]

It wrote a story about it.

[06:22]

And I was the first one to hand in my pamphlet.

[06:27]

And I tried to sneak out because I didn't.

[06:31]

It was five minutes and I was done.

[06:33]

And I was certain I was going to get thrown out of the school

[06:37]

for that.

[06:38]

And the teacher called me when I was in the hallway

[06:41]

and said, Lippo, get back here.

[06:43]

And I said, oh boy, this is what am I going to tell my mom and dad?

[06:47]

You know?

[06:47]

And I said, before you yell at me, he says, well,

[06:52]

I'm going to yell at you, but at the end,

[06:54]

he said, do you realize you're writing very cinematically

[06:57]

whatever this crap is that you wrote?

[07:00]

And so I said, I didn't even know what cinematic meant,

[07:03]

honestly, I didn't know what he's talking about.

[07:05]

And he said, can I show this to a professor

[07:09]

in the communications department?

[07:11]

It's that time they didn't have film or anything.

[07:13]

And he sent to this guy and he said, you know,

[07:15]

you're writing really visual.

[07:18]

These are interesting.

[07:20]

Have you ever thought of writing movies or anything?

[07:23]

I said, no, God, no.

[07:25]

Little bit.

[07:26]

I said, I watched a lot of movies with my dad.

[07:31]

All movies.

[07:32]

And I said, but I've thought about it,

[07:36]

because whenever even in English class,

[07:38]

I was always a little off center from everybody else.

[07:42]

And the teachers were coming on that.

[07:44]

So I applied to NYU to the graduate school.

[07:49]

And I was shocked that I got in.

[07:53]

And so I went to NYU to the graduate department.

[07:58]

That's where I met my writing partner, Danny Sullivan,

[08:02]

who to this day, I think is one of the best comedy

[08:07]

writers in the past or the present.

[08:11]

He doesn't write anymore, but he's that good.

[08:14]

And I was lucky to attach myself to him.

[08:18]

And I always compared us to, like, Gladys Knight

[08:20]

and the Pips.

[08:21]

And Danny was Gladys Knight, and I was a Pip Knight.

[08:25]

And I have no problem saying that he's that good.

[08:28]

And he's got a son, actually, now that,

[08:31]

great graduate, I think, Loyola Film School named Tom Sullivan,

[08:34]

who's really a good lawyer.

[08:36]

So everyone watch out Tom Sullivan.

[08:38]

He's going to follow his dad's footsteps.

[08:40]

Film School at that time, we're talking 80s?

[08:45]

It was early 80s, yeah.

[08:46]

What's something that you learned at NYU Film School?

[08:49]

Is there anything that you took away from film school?

[08:52]

Well, the great thing about NYU is that the faculty,

[09:00]

most of the faculty were pretty famous writers.

[09:05]

Ian McClellan Hunter taught me.

[09:08]

Waldo Salt was at the school ring law.

[09:10]

I was at the school the biggest thing.

[09:12]

The guys that won Academy Awards, Vennable Herndon,

[09:18]

Mark Dickerman was a great teacher.

[09:20]

I just had a bunch of great teachers.

[09:23]

And the one thing that there are a few things

[09:27]

that really that stand out to me is they never made you

[09:34]

read a book of Hadariter Screenplay.

[09:37]

It was always optional.

[09:39]

And the one thing that they always reinforced

[09:43]

that to this day, I really believe it,

[09:46]

is that you take ten of your favorite movies

[09:50]

and you watch them over and over and over.

[09:54]

And you develop involuntarily a muscle in your brain

[10:00]

that teaches you had a right.

[10:03]

You don't even think about it.

[10:04]

You just absorb it.

[10:05]

And then when you start writing, without reading,

[10:10]

I have nothing against anybody that reads Sid Fields,

[10:13]

or Ricky or anything.

[10:15]

Those guys are great.

[10:16]

And if it works for you, great.

[10:18]

But everybody's got a different way of approaching things.

[10:21]

And for me, being that that wasn't drilled into us,

[10:24]

and instead to watch movies over and over,

[10:27]

you develop like this muscle in your brain.

[10:29]

I can't explain.

[10:31]

But it's like an automatic response

[10:33]

as you like.

[10:33]

It's a muscle memory.

[10:34]

Where you go, OK, this has to come next.

[10:37]

This has to come next.

[10:38]

And you're not thinking first act, second act, midpoint,

[10:41]

point of no return.

[10:43]

And a third act, Daniel Ma, you're not.

[10:46]

Fred hates those terms, by the way.

[10:47]

You want to get Fred going?

[10:48]

No, throw out the acne of the term.

[10:50]

No, it ain't a fun big deal.

[10:52]

They work for a lot of people.

[10:54]

Sure, I'm not discouraging anybody

[10:56]

from reading those books.

[10:58]

And utilizing them.

[11:00]

But for me, taking the advice of those teachers

[11:05]

made a huge difference.

[11:06]

Yeah.

[11:07]

And my big break at NYU was that Roger Corman,

[11:14]

you guys know Roger Corman, has had his story

[11:17]

at a teacher class at NYU.

[11:21]

And they picked three students to intern over the summer

[11:27]

at New World Pictures to write screenplays.

[11:32]

And I was lucky because there were many writers

[11:35]

that department that were a lot better than me.

[11:38]

But they didn't present their best scripts in the class.

[11:43]

And I only wrote one script.

[11:45]

And somehow the story that it took a liking to my script.

[11:52]

And I went out with two other people

[11:54]

to Los Angeles to write the sequel to Death Rage 2000,

[11:59]

Roger Corman.

[12:01]

And it was an absolute piece of garbage that I wrote.

[12:03]

I mean, it was embarrassing.

[12:05]

And I always had wished the Danny would have submitted

[12:14]

for the class one of his best screenplays.

[12:19]

So we could have gone out there together and stuff.

[12:21]

But so I worked for Roger Corman.

[12:25]

And obviously, I mean, Roger Corman

[12:29]

discovered everybody.

[12:31]

Never did I mean.

[12:32]

I don't know.

[12:33]

I mean, everybody produced 400 categories.

[12:36]

So I was probably out of all the people he ever recruited.

[12:40]

I don't think I was on the very high in the list.

[12:45]

I mean, I always say to people, I find it funny.

[12:47]

Like at NYU, it says something like notable alumni,

[12:51]

they have a list.

[12:52]

And I'm between Spike Lee and Lady Gaga.

[12:56]

Because my name is La Bo.

[12:58]

And I go, it's embarrassing.

[12:59]

It's Spike Lee, then La Bo, and Lady Gaga.

[13:04]

So it's like, but I learned a lot at NYU.

[13:09]

Like I said, through not only those great teachers,

[13:14]

but about the business.

[13:16]

Well, one thing that you taught me early on was that.

[13:19]

Watch movies.

[13:19]

But you'll said read screenplays on your lap,

[13:22]

while watching your movie, which is a great fit.

[13:24]

That high.

[13:24]

But we always use that to put that in.

[13:27]

No, that's a great.

[13:28]

That's half the battle.

[13:29]

Watch your movies and read the screenplay.

[13:31]

Watch the movie and read the screenplay.

[13:33]

Because then they mesh into one.

[13:35]

Yeah.

[13:36]

And I'm so glad you brought that up.

[13:38]

Because that's half of the equation.

[13:39]

Yeah.

[13:40]

And what I'm here for.

[13:41]

Yes.

[13:43]

But also you had a great story, too.

[13:45]

I'm from what I remember.

[13:46]

You talked about when your professors in NYU

[13:48]

saying everyone raised your hand.

[13:50]

And then three points of three people,

[13:53]

the other people put their hands down.

[13:54]

And you're like, this is who's going to make it.

[13:56]

And it's not because of, well, maybe you can explain.

[13:58]

There was an agent who I'm not going to name who he was.

[14:06]

But he was a prominent agent.

[14:08]

And he asked the class, no, I think what he said to the class

[14:16]

was basically out of the 25 people sitting in this classroom,

[14:23]

maybe three of you will make it.

[14:27]

And the other 22 will not.

[14:31]

And he didn't say it had anything to do with talent.

[14:35]

He said it was 100% perseverance.

[14:38]

Battle of tradition.

[14:39]

You're all going to need a steel stomach.

[14:44]

When you get out of film school, you go to Los Angeles.

[14:47]

You're going to hear the worst insults of your life

[14:50]

about not only your script, but about your mother, your father.

[14:54]

It's everything.

[14:55]

It's going to be brutal.

[14:57]

And I remember that never left me.

[15:01]

And I remember the first script I submitted when I got out

[15:06]

of NYU was in New York.

[15:09]

And I submitted it to the first name

[15:13]

under literary agents in the phone book.

[15:16]

And you can guess it was with an agent.

[15:19]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[15:20]

I get it.

[15:22]

So this woman, the agent calls me back and says,

[15:26]

I read the script and I was so excited.

[15:28]

So first person ever read my script, she goes,

[15:32]

I have a very important question to ask.

[15:34]

And I go, what is that?

[15:35]

She says, do you have any other skills?

[15:38]

And I go, what does that mean?

[15:41]

She goes, you don't have it.

[15:43]

Full screenwriting.

[15:45]

Burn.

[15:46]

And I go, what am I going to do now?

[15:48]

I spend three years at this school.

[15:51]

My mother and father, they have so much confidence in me

[15:56]

and believe in me.

[15:57]

How do I tell them, I suck, really.

[16:02]

And so that was my first, first big rejection.

[16:07]

Then in school, actually, at NYU.

[16:10]

And I can say his name basically because he's

[16:14]

still with us.

[16:17]

But no, I was taking a playwriting class

[16:21]

with a gentleman named Tad Mosel, who brilliant, brilliant

[16:26]

playwright, who won.

[16:29]

I think he won't pull surprise tonies for what

[16:33]

was his play, his famous play, all the way home,

[16:36]

I think, was his play.

[16:38]

And he made everybody read their One Act plays in class, out loud.

[16:45]

And mine was a comedy.

[16:48]

And it was about 10 people from different nationalities

[16:52]

that lived in a house.

[16:54]

And they were stuck in a rainstorm in the house.

[16:57]

And someone got murdered.

[17:00]

But no one could get out of the house.

[17:02]

And honestly, I thought it was the second coming of Citizen

[17:07]

Kane, and I put on the board.

[17:10]

And so I read it out loud.

[17:12]

And it was a comedy.

[17:14]

And you could hear a pin drop for 15 minutes.

[17:17]

That's got to feel good.

[17:18]

And then the title of the play was God has a tale.

[17:23]

But it wasn't T-A-L-E, it was T-A-I-L.

[17:28]

And among the 10 people in the class was a dog in the house.

[17:34]

They had a dog.

[17:35]

And his name was Dog.

[17:38]

Nice.

[17:39]

So I'm reading my play out loud.

[17:43]

And I'm laughing as I'm reading it, going, oh, this is funny.

[17:46]

And no one's laughing.

[17:48]

And at the end, the big moment of the movie,

[17:52]

the big resolution of the movie, was that the dog who

[17:57]

hadn't said a word the entire play, obviously,

[18:00]

because he's a dog, is looking in the mirror.

[18:03]

And his name takes his dog.

[18:06]

But in the mirror, it's a God.

[18:09]

So I'm going, this is brilliant.

[18:11]

God has a tale.

[18:12]

This is Rosebud.

[18:13]

This is Rosebud.

[18:15]

So I was expecting applause after I read it.

[18:20]

And everyone's looking at each other.

[18:23]

And I'll never forget Todd Bones-El said to me,

[18:26]

you're a graduate student.

[18:29]

And that was my second kick in the ass.

[18:32]

So my point being that you really have

[18:38]

to be able to persevere.

[18:41]

And like I said, I didn't have any other skills.

[18:44]

And I wish I did, because I would have.

[18:49]

But that's such great advice, because I

[18:51]

saw when I was coming up, friends of mine, just leaving town,

[18:57]

right, going back home.

[18:58]

They can't stomach it.

[18:58]

They can't stomach the Ls, the losses, the rejections.

[19:02]

And these were talented people.

[19:04]

But and then friends that I know that went on

[19:07]

on that big careers are quite successful.

[19:09]

Maybe weren't the best writers, but they stuck it out

[19:11]

the long.

[19:11]

And that advice was something that always stuck with me

[19:13]

about having that still stomach.

[19:15]

So I think that's a great piece of advice.

[19:16]

And everything you write, obviously,

[19:19]

is going to be subjective.

[19:21]

Sure.

[19:22]

To other people.

[19:23]

And the more people that the other thing I was told in film school

[19:28]

is you could have 99 nose.

[19:31]

You only need one yet.

[19:33]

That's it.

[19:34]

And some people run away after 5 or 10

[19:37]

nose.

[19:38]

And that's a big mistake, if you believe in yourself.

[19:41]

And some people write, because they just love it.

[19:45]

And there's nothing wrong with going through your life

[19:47]

and writing and never making a penny.

[19:49]

That's right.

[19:50]

If it makes you happy.

[19:51]

Sure.

[19:51]

And that's what I would tell my children

[19:54]

if they wanted to be in the entertainment business

[19:57]

is that if that's what makes you happy and you love doing

[20:02]

it, do it.

[20:02]

And I don't mean to sound trite.

[20:04]

No, but Michael Cain talks about acting.

[20:06]

He's like, I would act, making $75 a week

[20:09]

in the London production.

[20:10]

It's like, I just need to act.

[20:11]

I don't care about the money.

[20:13]

I just need to act.

[20:14]

So it's similar in the writing.

[20:15]

But in my case, I'm a hypocrite because if I could have done

[20:19]

anything else, I would have got out.

[20:21]

No, I'm being honest with you.

[20:22]

Yeah.

[20:23]

Someone said to me, you know, you know,

[20:26]

electrical work, well, you can be a partner on my firm.

[20:28]

I'd go, where do I sign?

[20:30]

But I didn't have any skills.

[20:32]

Is there, I find it fascinating because it feels

[20:36]

as if my entire life, people talk about the film industry

[20:42]

is something that used to be so great and is dying

[20:46]

and the world is falling with what you were saying about

[20:49]

kind of like the war of attrition with the people

[20:52]

in your class.

[20:53]

Is that just a sentiment that has always been there?

[20:58]

Has there ever been a time in your career where you're like,

[21:00]

you know, things are actually in general

[21:02]

in this industry pretty good?

[21:04]

Well, yeah, I think that it's weird because back then,

[21:10]

in the 90s, really in the late 80s,

[21:13]

there weren't that many buyers.

[21:15]

There were what, 12 or 15 total, you know, studios

[21:20]

were producers that had discretionary deals with studios

[21:24]

that could make movies and stuff.

[21:27]

But there was so much competition because they weren't

[21:33]

that many buyers.

[21:34]

Today, there's so many buyers when you compare it back to then.

[21:41]

Sure.

[21:41]

And so I think it gives people more opportunities.

[21:46]

You know, what's always been the same to me

[21:50]

is that out of the 100% of the stuff you make,

[21:54]

you see in the theaters of screaming.

[21:57]

And back then it was just the theaters or TV.

[22:01]

Maybe five or 10% were brilliant.

[22:05]

It's the same people we all know that no matter what they do,

[22:10]

they're brilliant and they're always going to get jobs

[22:13]

and they're always going to turn out great stuff.

[22:16]

But the other 90% even today,

[22:20]

I think scratch and claw to get to break,

[22:24]

to get one filmmaker a series.

[22:28]

And that's the hard part because that 10% of you know,

[22:31]

you know the names of all of them,

[22:33]

whether they're writers or directors.

[22:35]

But the other 90% are, you really have to fight.

[22:39]

Sure.

[22:40]

And when I first came to Los Angeles, people said,

[22:45]

you know, the best thing you could do is get hooked up with,

[22:49]

like an agency or movie studio and I said, oh good.

[22:53]

And when I found out, that's not easy.

[22:57]

The two prerequisites to do that, people might deny it.

[23:01]

But either you had to go to an Ivy League school

[23:06]

or you had to be good looking.

[23:09]

And I think that holds up to this day.

[23:11]

And I remember I was, I think I had an interview,

[23:17]

it might have been William Morris or TriStar,

[23:19]

or Orion, I don't want to say definitively which one it was.

[23:24]

And I didn't get a job, I just wanted to be, you know,

[23:28]

like in the mail room.

[23:29]

Sure.

[23:30]

And somebody who worked in HR said to me that I knew,

[23:35]

I said I didn't get the job, even in the mail,

[23:38]

they said no, but you know, some of the people in Maryland

[23:41]

sometimes come out and they're receptionist

[23:44]

and I said, what is that have to do anything?

[23:46]

Well, it says on your application that they filled out

[23:51]

after meeting you that you have no FOA.

[23:54]

And I go, what is FOA?

[23:56]

And they said, front office appearance.

[23:59]

So they basically said, you're ugly.

[24:02]

You know, I said, wow, I got rejected because I'm ugly.

[24:05]

Yeah.

[24:06]

But that's really like business.

[24:07]

Yeah.

[24:08]

You know, that or you could be a member also a third thing

[24:12]

of the Lucky Spurm Club.

[24:13]

Yeah.

[24:14]

If you remember the Lucky Spurm Club, you can get it.

[24:16]

And the Netbow, babies.

[24:18]

But once you get into any of those jobs

[24:22]

at the studios or the agencies, it's a great platform to move up.

[24:28]

Well, let's get off the rejections

[24:30]

and start getting into some successes here

[24:32]

because Fred Yuko wrote one of the top rom-coms of all time

[24:36]

while you were sleeping.

[24:37]

I think some of the list I saw recently was they ranked it

[24:40]

within the top 15 of all time.

[24:42]

Big box office success.

[24:43]

You would argue that that launched Sandra Bullock's career.

[24:46]

One could argue.

[24:48]

But let's talk about how you got there.

[24:49]

So you go from NYU, you move out to LA, you're trying

[24:52]

to make it as a writer.

[24:53]

Tell us how you broke in.

[24:55]

From NYU, another great thing that NYU did for me was,

[25:00]

they set you up with two or three producers

[25:04]

when you leave the school to meet.

[25:06]

So you have a starting point that could hopefully have

[25:12]

a domino effect and meet other people.

[25:14]

And our very first meeting was with Warner Brothers

[25:23]

and they wanted to do live-action Flintstones.

[25:28]

And they wanted Rodney Dangerfield and Wally Sean

[25:32]

to be Fred and Barney.

[25:34]

And they had gone through like 10 or 20 teams of writers.

[25:38]

And Joe Barbera, who won the Flintstone, said,

[25:42]

I don't see this.

[25:44]

This is what we were told.

[25:45]

I'm only giving him a third hand.

[25:48]

That he didn't want to do it as a feature film

[25:51]

because he said it live-action because it's not going

[25:55]

to live up to.

[25:57]

And to this day, I think Danny, my writer

[26:00]

and partner, would tell you the same thing.

[26:02]

It's by far the funniest pitch we ever came up with.

[26:08]

And we were told we were hired, we got the job.

[26:14]

And then we found out the company that owned Hannah Barbera

[26:18]

didn't want us because we were too young.

[26:21]

And we were devastated because we really believed, wow.

[26:25]

This was that.

[26:26]

This is easy.

[26:26]

We went to California.

[26:28]

Boom.

[26:29]

And then for the next three years, we did temp jobs.

[26:32]

Danny was the elevator operator in the Beverly Center.

[26:36]

And I worked at a, I don't want to name the company,

[26:38]

but it was like I'm, I called it the missile factory.

[26:42]

And it was a company that made a poch

[26:44]

of the Trident Super Suv submarine.

[26:47]

And they'd even asked you before they heard you do you

[26:49]

have any morals because this is about submarines.

[26:53]

And you know, nuclear, I said, I've done morals.

[26:57]

How much did it pay?

[26:59]

So it was like $7,000 now.

[27:02]

And that time it was a lot.

[27:03]

It was.

[27:04]

And, but I got kicked in the ass for saying I had no morals

[27:10]

because I worked in what was called the Blueprint Room

[27:13]

where you, they would print out, I'd push a button

[27:17]

and it would print out gigantic, almost the size

[27:20]

of this room.

[27:21]

Blueprints for the pots of the submarine.

[27:25]

And two of the, and what came out of that was ammonia.

[27:31]

And you were supposed to be wearing a gas mask.

[27:33]

And this company didn't do it.

[27:35]

By then it was mandatory that you had to wear a gas mask.

[27:40]

And two of the girls that I worked with in that room

[27:42]

who didn't like me, because I said I wanted to be a rider

[27:45]

and they thought that was hysterical.

[27:47]

They used this like when I'd come in,

[27:48]

they go, did you talk to Stallone on the phone today?

[27:52]

You know what I mean?

[27:52]

They were really nasty.

[27:55]

And they locked me in there once.

[27:58]

And I'm breathing in all the, all the ammonia.

[28:00]

And I couldn't breathe.

[28:01]

I didn't even know there was anything wrong with breathing it in.

[28:04]

And then when I got out of the room finally,

[28:08]

like I couldn't breathe in, this guy who just started

[28:11]

there as an engineer and said, you work in that room

[28:14]

without a gas mask.

[28:16]

And I go, yeah, why?

[28:16]

He goes, that stuff is cancer cause.

[28:20]

And to this day, I can't believe I'm still alive

[28:26]

because I have that.

[28:28]

And I have the fog truck, which, yes, yes.

[28:31]

Can I talk about the fog truck?

[28:32]

We will, but let's get into, well, success.

[28:35]

Let's get to the success part.

[28:37]

Why are you sleeping?

[28:38]

OK.

[28:39]

So with while you were sleeping, the first script

[28:44]

we actually had sold, which today I believe still

[28:48]

is our best concept, was the script called Back Then It

[28:54]

Was Snowflakes.

[28:55]

And now it's Snow Angels.

[28:57]

And it's gone through, rewrites over the years.

[29:00]

And Bruce Willis bought that script in 1993.

[29:04]

And I'm still working on it.

[29:06]

Danny, once again, never give up.

[29:08]

No, I'm still working on it.

[29:09]

Oh, I know you are.

[29:10]

And I still think to the state it's our best concept.

[29:13]

That was the first script we have.

[29:15]

So that's your big sale.

[29:16]

Your first big sale is Bruce Willis' company, 1993,

[29:19]

by Snowflakes.

[29:19]

Right.

[29:20]

OK.

[29:20]

Then we were lucky enough to get two or three TV movies

[29:26]

from Fox TV when they first started.

[29:29]

Now you're working.

[29:30]

So we're making a little money there.

[29:34]

And then time went by again.

[29:35]

We both had to go back to working some submarine plans,

[29:41]

the flippinburgers.

[29:43]

And then basically what happened was we

[29:49]

pitched while he was sleeping, all over Los Angeles.

[29:54]

I mean, we went to anybody that would listen to a pitch.

[29:58]

But the initial pitch was a man went into a coma, not a woman.

[30:02]

Right.

[30:02]

So that's a big thing to know.

[30:04]

I'll tell you how that changed.

[30:06]

Wherever we went with the pitch, because it was a man saying

[30:12]

he's engaged to a woman that's in a coma,

[30:16]

every single person who heard the pitch said, you guys are creeps.

[30:19]

So I just want to give a little context to people tuning in

[30:22]

who maybe have not seen the movie.

[30:24]

First of all, if you have not seen while you're sleeping

[30:25]

in your love romcoms, you need to watch it immediately.

[30:27]

It's incredible.

[30:28]

But the story is about Sandra Bullock.

[30:30]

She's in love with a man that she sees on train platforms.

[30:33]

He accidentally gets into a coma.

[30:35]

And she pretends to be his fiance when he's in the coma

[30:39]

to the family.

[30:40]

It's hysterical.

[30:41]

It's brilliant.

[30:42]

So what Fred's saying is that his initial pitch was the reverse.

[30:45]

It was a man who's in love with a woman.

[30:47]

She falls into a coma and he pretends to be the fiance of the world.

[30:50]

So everybody we pitched that to say, you guys are creeps.

[30:54]

You creeps and you're predatory.

[30:56]

But then we pitched it to Meg Ryan's company.

[30:59]

And she at that time was like one of the first

[31:01]

hottest romcom people.

[31:05]

And her, I guess it was her producer.

[31:10]

I think it was at Fox at the time, said to us, why would Meg

[31:16]

want to do this movie?

[31:17]

Number one, you guys are creeps.

[31:19]

Number two, she sleeps in a movie.

[31:22]

She sleeps the whole movie.

[31:23]

Why would you want to do it?

[31:24]

And she was the one that made this suggestion.

[31:28]

She goes, why don't you turn it around?

[31:30]

And it won't be predatory.

[31:31]

And you guys might not be creepy.

[31:33]

Make it a woman, a woman who falls in love with a man in a coma.

[31:40]

Then we lose the predatory aspect of it.

[31:43]

And you can get an actress to play the role.

[31:46]

Right.

[31:46]

So you do that that she say yes, no.

[31:48]

No, she still does.

[31:49]

Yes, she still does.

[31:51]

But she gave you advice that would change your life.

[31:54]

So Ben Danian, I started writing it.

[32:02]

And we had a couple of producers along the way that came in and out.

[32:07]

And the last producer on it was Officer Sokisian.

[32:12]

So for the you that don't know, Arthur Sokisian is the producer

[32:15]

of why you're sleeping, but also the Rochawer series

[32:17]

amongst other films.

[32:19]

And Arthur optioned the script.

[32:23]

And again, this is why I say everything is so subjective.

[32:30]

He shopped it all over Los Angeles.

[32:32]

Everybody passed on it.

[32:35]

And the one agency, last agency, like everybody said,

[32:40]

this is a single, maybe a double, but it's definitely not a home run.

[32:44]

The last agency, William Morris Reddit.

[32:47]

And Jim Crab and I think Todd Phillips

[32:53]

with the two agents that read it.

[32:54]

And they both looked at each other.

[32:56]

And this is why I say everything is subjective.

[32:59]

They go people passed on this.

[33:01]

And the next thing we knew, we had four or five studios bidding on it.

[33:08]

All it takes is one.

[33:10]

Yeah.

[33:10]

One interested party without them being interested.

[33:13]

I was saying never would have created the bidding war.

[33:15]

My courage riders, young riders, you can have 99

[33:19]

nose.

[33:20]

You just need that one, yes.

[33:23]

And that one, yes, led to I'm sure, like,

[33:28]

out of those four or five studios, two didn't even read it.

[33:32]

But it becomes this, it takes a life of its own.

[33:34]

Good.

[33:35]

And so from there, it went out

[33:43]

to the two top actresses at the time, passed on it.

[33:51]

It went to Julia Roberts.

[33:54]

And it went to Demi Moore, to me.

[33:58]

And they both passed on it.

[34:01]

And then they brought on a director.

[34:05]

He's a great guy.

[34:06]

John Turtle, tell.

[34:07]

Yeah, I know John.

[34:08]

And John at that point, I think his only movie,

[34:11]

he was a very young guy, obviously, was cool runnings, which

[34:15]

was really funny.

[34:17]

We'll get the Bob said team.

[34:19]

So John was attached as director.

[34:23]

And then we had to find, they had to find an actress.

[34:27]

And they found Sandra Bullock, who Danny

[34:30]

I didn't know who she was.

[34:32]

And they said, well, she was in speed.

[34:34]

She was the driver of the bus.

[34:38]

So your movie came out after speed.

[34:40]

Yeah.

[34:40]

OK.

[34:41]

Yeah.

[34:42]

And we were blessed because she was absolutely fantastic.

[34:48]

She was a great one to create in your movie.

[34:51]

And that's wonderful.

[34:52]

She's a great actress in general.

[34:53]

And a wonderful person.

[34:55]

And it was great because it wound up having such a great cast.

[35:00]

I mean, to have people like the father from everyone, everyone

[35:05]

loves Raymond.

[35:05]

I forget his name.

[35:06]

Yeah, Peter Boyle.

[35:07]

Yeah, Peter Boyle.

[35:07]

Yeah, he was still Pullman.

[35:08]

Sure.

[35:09]

Pullman, that's right.

[35:10]

And the guy with Gallagher, high brows.

[35:13]

Peter Guybrow.

[35:14]

Yeah.

[35:15]

Jack Wooden.

[35:16]

Yeah, you had the best cast.

[35:17]

No seriously.

[35:18]

We really did.

[35:20]

I'm a killer.

[35:20]

I'm a Curio, played the mother.

[35:23]

And that famous British actress was the grandmother.

[35:25]

I'm getting old.

[35:26]

So I've got, excuse me for getting her name.

[35:28]

But she was one of the most famous British acts in actresses.

[35:32]

She just passed away.

[35:34]

She played the grandmother.

[35:36]

They didn't put a lot of money.

[35:37]

This was a Disney release, right?

[35:38]

Yeah, this was a Disney.

[35:40]

Hollywood Pictures and Caravan Pictures.

[35:43]

And they didn't put a lot of money into the PNA of the movie.

[35:49]

But it caught fire.

[35:51]

It did.

[35:52]

And they always said they wish they did because it would have

[35:56]

it could have been more.

[35:57]

And we're talking.

[35:58]

I don't know the numbers, but domestically at the time,

[36:00]

might have been over $100 million.

[36:02]

I don't think it made a hundred.

[36:03]

I think it was under that.

[36:04]

But it was high internet, maybe with international.

[36:07]

I mean, but at the time, 1995,

[36:09]

that's a big deal for a long time.

[36:11]

It was under 100.

[36:13]

But I think it internationally was like 250 or 300.

[36:17]

Huge.

[36:18]

And it was really big in Germany.

[36:20]

I remember that it was at all times records in Germany.

[36:24]

So you get the success of why you're sleeping.

[36:26]

This launches your career of a number one movie or a movie

[36:29]

that's doing very well in the theaters.

[36:31]

You guys become now the overnight sensations.

[36:33]

The Hollywood comedy go to a list writers.

[36:36]

Tell us, well, first of all, because this is what I love to live

[36:38]

through, I think the vicariousness of the success.

[36:41]

What was that like going from rejection,

[36:45]

FOA, submarine, ammonia, to then becoming

[36:49]

the Hollywood writer that everyone aspires to be?

[36:53]

Well, I don't mean to be negative,

[36:55]

because I know he's trying to be positive and you should be.

[36:59]

But for me, it was very different than it was for Danny.

[37:04]

Danny found out on the day we sold the movie

[37:08]

that his wife was pregnant with a second child.

[37:12]

So he was euphoric.

[37:14]

And I was delighted for him.

[37:16]

And he was the happiest moment of Danny's, one of the happiest

[37:21]

ones, obviously, of Danny's life, having his second child

[37:25]

knowing she's coming.

[37:27]

But for me, my biggest fan was my father.

[37:32]

And my dad got very sick early in life.

[37:35]

He had a heart attack in his early 50s.

[37:37]

And he was subject really to living at home.

[37:39]

And my dad actually used to watch stupid things together

[37:45]

all the time.

[37:45]

I haven't just fell over every Sunday morning.

[37:49]

We just love watching stuff together, old movies.

[37:52]

And my dad was my biggest fan.

[37:54]

My mom was too.

[37:56]

But my dad used to always say to me, you know, you can't go,

[37:59]

you're going to be successful.

[38:02]

This was after film school.

[38:04]

And when I'd come home, and I said, oh, yeah, I hope.

[38:06]

I don't know.

[38:08]

And he died two days before I sold a script.

[38:13]

So for me, it was very bitter.

[38:16]

So I sounded to Danny and Yoni that for me,

[38:20]

the money that we started getting.

[38:23]

I come from a very blue collar fan.

[38:25]

My dad was a stevedor and a lump of salesman.

[38:31]

But most of the things he did was he

[38:35]

unloaded lumber at six in the morning of trains.

[38:39]

That's what a stevedor does.

[38:41]

And never complained, worked till seven, eight o'clock at night,

[38:46]

and worked his whole life.

[38:47]

And then he got a heart attack, and he could work anymore.

[38:51]

And my biggest dream was to, he loved the race horses.

[38:58]

He loved to go to Bill Martin Aqueduct.

[39:00]

And my dream was to, he always used

[39:04]

to watch the horses on TV as well, the races from Bill

[39:08]

Martin Aqueduct.

[39:09]

And he'd open up the daily news and see who's racing.

[39:12]

He'd play along, you know, him and my mom even

[39:15]

made fake money.

[39:16]

And I'm anopoly money.

[39:18]

I bet every Saturday and Sunday, my dream was that someday,

[39:23]

I wish I could buy him a race horse and surprise him

[39:27]

and buy a racing form.

[39:30]

And as he's watching TV, one of the races,

[39:36]

see the name of the horse.

[39:37]

His name is Lenny.

[39:39]

So I was going to name the horse Lenny's dream.

[39:42]

And then underneath it, it always says the owner

[39:45]

and haven't seen his name.

[39:47]

That was my, like, I just was striving for that.

[39:50]

And after he passed away, I could have done it.

[39:54]

Like I actually could have done it, because I didn't

[39:57]

come for money.

[39:59]

And life is a big part of how you handle your writing career.

[40:03]

Because besides handling the difficulties

[40:07]

of your writing career, you're also

[40:09]

going to have your setbacks in life.

[40:11]

Yes.

[40:12]

So it is important that telling you this.

[40:14]

And that's why I say you have to have a steel stomach.

[40:18]

Because if you don't, you're going to get massacred.

[40:23]

But on the writing side, you're writing at a time, mid-90s,

[40:27]

where I play this game all the time.

[40:29]

I'd say pick a year.

[40:31]

We did this, like, 1987, 1998.

[40:35]

And I compare the movies that came out

[40:37]

in those generations, I find are way better

[40:41]

than what's coming out today.

[40:42]

If you were to say 2024, besides your film,

[40:45]

in the North, like, what now?

[40:47]

I don't know.

[40:48]

I'd say, I'd say you love Sean Baker.

[40:49]

But there are films that won't be memorable.

[40:52]

And you were writing at a, I won't say the golden age,

[40:56]

that was really 70s, but at a time

[40:58]

where there was some great films being made.

[41:02]

And your writing approach is different,

[41:03]

because you didn't grow up with special effects.

[41:05]

You were all about the word on the page.

[41:07]

So what does your take as a writer who

[41:11]

has been in the business for so long

[41:13]

and seeing it evolve in the way it has?

[41:15]

What is your take on modern?

[41:18]

Well, I think that was the start of when

[41:20]

they started making the $100,200,000 movies,

[41:24]

whereas before, right at my time and right before it,

[41:28]

that didn't really exist.

[41:30]

And a big budget movie was $25, $30 million.

[41:35]

And they made a lot of movies.

[41:37]

But I think the difference, and this is just again

[41:42]

my opinion, is that there were more Godrails back then.

[41:50]

Whereas in terms of development,

[41:52]

like it wore eyes on it.

[41:54]

Yeah, all along the way.

[41:55]

I thought the studios developed a ton of more.

[41:59]

Today they don't develop anything.

[42:01]

Yeah, that's the reason.

[42:01]

It has to be ready to go.

[42:04]

But on the stuff they paid a lot of money for,

[42:08]

there were Godrails.

[42:09]

It started in the story department.

[42:11]

It had to go to the aging assistance.

[42:14]

Then it had to go to the story meeting.

[42:16]

And then it had to go to the agent who

[42:21]

was wanting to circulate the script.

[42:25]

Then it went to the studios in the same process.

[42:28]

It had to go through the Godrails.

[42:29]

And today, from what I know, because I'm really so

[42:34]

out of the industry at the moment that I'm in it.

[42:37]

If that makes sense.

[42:38]

Now it does.

[42:39]

I really don't know what's going on in the industry today,

[42:41]

outside of what I hear.

[42:43]

But what I hear from people that write

[42:47]

or friends and stuff is that the Godrails don't exist.

[42:50]

That once they have to churn out stuff, they need content.

[42:56]

And if one or two people like it for any reason, they find it going.

[43:01]

Yeah, we talked about that, and James got in.

[43:03]

Yeah, and it just starts going.

[43:04]

So I think the reason though movies might have been better

[43:06]

back then is because they'll more rise on it.

[43:10]

They would definitely more Godrails.

[43:15]

But you know.

[43:16]

What was there any project that comes to mind that you got paid for

[43:21]

and you had extreme passion for the project in one way or another?

[43:27]

There was.

[43:27]

In all honesty, there wasn't.

[43:30]

It was never a scripted.

[43:33]

If we thought if we were offered a rewrite and we didn't think we

[43:40]

could make it a lot better, it's a lot of times you get a script

[43:43]

that's really good.

[43:45]

And you know, and if we didn't care about the money at the time

[43:49]

which we didn't, it wasn't.

[43:53]

Well, you get paid, I mean, your quote was half a million dollars

[43:55]

at that time.

[43:56]

Yeah, which again, 1995 money inflation.

[43:58]

We once read a script by Herman Mancoots and they said,

[44:02]

yeah, rewrite it.

[44:04]

And Daniel said, when are we rewriting Herman Mancoots?

[44:07]

You know, I said, you know, when would he's like 10 levels above us

[44:12]

when I'm rewriting Herman Mancoots?

[44:16]

And so we never really did anything like that.

[44:18]

And there was scripts that we did rewrites on that didn't get made,

[44:27]

that we wish got made.

[44:28]

That's what I would like to know.

[44:29]

What's the one screenplay that you wish got made?

[44:33]

Well, I think I have my guess of what you're going to say.

[44:35]

This too, that is in my mind.

[44:36]

Well, this too, the first one would be a script called Stanley's Cup.

[44:44]

I mean, that started out as a very, very broad comedy that disney owned.

[44:51]

And it was a guy that kind of had mental illness

[44:56]

and he stole the Stanley Cup the night the ranges won the Stanley Cup.

[45:04]

And it was a very, very broad comedy.

[45:06]

But the guy was sick, like he was mentally ill.

[45:09]

And I have two skits for an Existors.

[45:12]

So when I read the script, it really bothered me that, you know,

[45:16]

that it, they could do something and that's not funny to me.

[45:23]

That's so painful to a lot of people.

[45:26]

So Danny and I turned it into a drama of not a drama, a dramedy.

[45:33]

So because the people in the film that was, that were supposed to do the movie

[45:38]

were Chris Farley as the mentally, he was attached at the time.

[45:43]

He was attached.

[45:45]

And Dennis Leary was supposed to be the guy.

[45:48]

Yeah, yeah.

[45:49]

And we talked disney really out of making it.

[45:54]

Because we would, I don't know if we were too arrogant.

[45:57]

We thought we would like, you know, the cats me out.

[46:00]

And we could tell them what's wrong with the script.

[46:03]

And we told them some of the critical things that it's like, it started to like,

[46:10]

say, well, these, the writers don't even like the script.

[46:13]

And this was in pre-production at Disney, not with Chris Farley at that time.

[46:18]

Because I think he either had passed away or he was having issues

[46:23]

of a drama.

[46:25]

But Disney still wanted to go ahead with it.

[46:27]

And then there was a table read.

[46:29]

And this is really something really important that your audience, I think, would be interested in is

[46:38]

when you have a really bad table read with the wrong actors, it could discourage

[46:46]

a studio or produce a stream, not to make the movie.

[46:50]

And in our case, the Chris Farley character was supposed to be a really strong,

[46:58]

believable character as a hockey player that was a little off center.

[47:02]

And they casted a guy that I don't want to say his name, that you would cast as a Jewish accountant.

[47:12]

And when he read the script, there was no life to it.

[47:16]

It was like a dead stream play.

[47:19]

And I said to the casting agent afterwards, like, why did you bring him for the table read?

[47:25]

Completely.

[47:26]

And she said, well, he won an Academy Award.

[47:29]

I said, yeah, but for a whole different genre.

[47:32]

Sure.

[47:32]

And so that movie never got made.

[47:36]

And it always bothered me because Skits of Frenny was something that was always so personal to me.

[47:44]

And we had a really great director that again came on Jim Abrams, who did everything he did

[47:52]

with Camille.

[47:53]

Yeah.

[47:54]

And Jim, I hope this is the right that I say, there's had a son that had some health issues.

[48:02]

So he also related to the dramatic side that we were trying to do, and he was all excited

[48:09]

about doing the movie.

[48:11]

And we kind of were so critical about it.

[48:15]

And then we had the bed table read.

[48:18]

And then Disney asked us if we'd rewrite one of the characters,

[48:22]

you know, the Dennis Leary character to make it, you know, give the character more depth.

[48:29]

And instead of saying, yes, we'll do that.

[48:31]

We said, no, you know, we'll move.

[48:33]

We were angry.

[48:34]

I can't talk for Danny, but I was a little on the arrogance, stupid side.

[48:38]

Okay.

[48:39]

So that didn't get made.

[48:41]

And second one, I'd rather not talk about that.

[48:45]

Okay.

[48:45]

I know exactly.

[48:46]

Yeah.

[48:47]

That one's really painful to me.

[48:50]

Well, no, that's a single writing job, the joint one.

[48:54]

Yeah, that was me.

[48:55]

Yeah, that one I know about.

[48:56]

But the co-writing, the team of Daniel and Fred, what would be a second film?

[49:00]

Second one, snowflakes.

[49:02]

Well, snowflakes, yeah, we still to this.

[49:04]

That's the one with it.

[49:05]

That's the one that he's currently working on.

[49:06]

I'm still fighting.

[49:07]

Disney owns it.

[49:08]

One of the best premises ever.

[49:09]

I'm not going to say anything about it because I want someone at Disney,

[49:12]

shake the tree, get this movie made, please.

[49:15]

This is your next big Christmas hit.

[49:17]

Well, I could tell you the premise.

[49:18]

Tell the premise.

[49:20]

The premise was, again, we wrote this like a 19.

[49:25]

This was a 93.

[49:26]

This is Bruce Wells bought this.

[49:27]

Yeah, we brought, we actually wrote the pitch before.

[49:31]

Even the back of the future came out.

[49:33]

It was like one time travel was a thing.

[49:36]

And it was a story about a guy, a cabbie in New York,

[49:40]

a blue collar guy, and it's Christmas in New York.

[49:43]

And his wife is dying, and it's Christmas.

[49:49]

She's in the hospital.

[49:51]

And she should have passed away like a month or two ago.

[49:59]

But she wants to spend Christmas Eve with her husband.

[50:04]

And the doctors don't want her to do it.

[50:07]

Family does want to do it, but she does it.

[50:10]

And they go out and they spend Christmas Eve together doing it.

[50:14]

And she has a bucket list of all the things she wants to do.

[50:18]

And they have the best time together.

[50:22]

And by the end of the night, she passes away.

[50:27]

And his life is just completely,

[50:32]

that was everything in the whole world.

[50:35]

And basically, the story is,

[50:40]

he has an angel that's been following him.

[50:46]

Because he made a challenge in a bar in Brooklyn.

[50:51]

Because they knew his wife, they knew his wife was dying.

[50:53]

And before she died,

[50:55]

bought tenders to win an Italian.

[50:58]

No miracles to beg for God, Harry.

[51:01]

You know, don't forget that.

[51:02]

And the Harry said miracles don't happen in Brooklyn.

[51:05]

The only Brooklyn miracle to happen is when the dodges beat the Yankees in 1955.

[51:10]

And that's signaled God.

[51:13]

To Lexi, miracles don't happen in Brooklyn.

[51:15]

All right, I'm going to mess with you.

[51:17]

So basically, what happens is,

[51:20]

he's returning his cab back to Manhattan,

[51:23]

going through the Brooklyn battery tunnel.

[51:26]

And when he gets out of the cab,

[51:30]

he's back in 1995.

[51:32]

And what we learn, what we didn't know,

[51:35]

we do know in the script, but I'm pitching it, you know, no.

[51:39]

Is his wife got into a car accident when she's seven years old on Christmas Eve in 1995

[51:46]

and crushed her chest, which causes all kinds of heart complications when she got older that

[51:52]

no one could ever do anything about.

[51:55]

And finally, he sees that same angel dressed in a

[52:01]

Curtis Lee Wadgardian angel shirt, which was really big in the 90s.

[52:05]

Guardian angels.

[52:06]

Yeah, they were running around.

[52:07]

They were in fact, he's running from there.

[52:11]

But he sees the angel's back in the cab.

[52:13]

He says, I saw you in the ball.

[52:14]

What'd you put in my drink?

[52:16]

And because everything's 1995.

[52:19]

And what happens basically, he says, you messed with God, you challenged him.

[52:24]

You said miracles don't happen in Brooklyn.

[52:26]

So he's giving you three strikes.

[52:28]

That accident with your wife happens in three hours and 40 minutes.

[52:32]

So you've got to go get up and make sure that accident doesn't happen.

[52:36]

Boom!

[52:37]

Look at that movie.

[52:38]

Sign me up.

[52:39]

Back to the future.

[52:40]

So you have a 35 year old man, whose wife is a seven year old child.

[52:44]

Yeah.

[52:46]

And she hates him at first.

[52:49]

But he never kidnaps or anything like that because he won't do it.

[52:53]

He believes he's a freak.

[52:54]

He could do anything like that.

[52:56]

But she wants to get it away from a parent to go somewhere else for Christmas.

[53:01]

So while he's in her house, like trying to figure out what to do,

[53:06]

she jumped in the back of his cab.

[53:08]

And when he takes off, the angels in his cab, she's in the back.

[53:14]

And she's nasty to him.

[53:15]

She's a little

[53:17]

ready for Christmas.

[53:19]

Proud of course.

[53:20]

And it's a story that evolves of how they get closer and closer and by

[53:28]

two thirds into the movie.

[53:29]

She's really become

[53:31]

emotionally that woman again.

[53:34]

She's seven.

[53:35]

But everything about that woman he's sworn the first act

[53:39]

is in that little girl.

[53:40]

Great.

[53:41]

And I won't tell you where it goes because we don't want to

[53:45]

spoil.

[53:45]

It's a lot of twists and turns and great concepts, great characters.

[53:50]

So that's the one, you know, there's two.

[53:53]

That's one and the other one I didn't want to talk about that.

[53:56]

We spoke about Stanley's cup and this one.

[53:58]

So those little notes, yeah, we know the third one.

[54:00]

That's the first one.

[54:00]

It's the most important to me.

[54:02]

But I don't want to talk about that one.

[54:04]

But but yes, I'm trying to I'm trying to figure out a way to

[54:09]

get that right.

[54:10]

I think it's taken a long time, but I'm trying.

[54:12]

We don't want to fan of that.

[54:13]

And I and what keeps me going, I should say this and something I didn't say before

[54:19]

that is bittersweet as everything was when my

[54:23]

dad passed away before I saw Walu sleep and it was also

[54:27]

a great time for me because that's when I met my wife.

[54:30]

Who is the greatest lady in the world and she I get tears in my eyes

[54:35]

of how lucky.

[54:36]

Yeah.

[54:37]

Yeah.

[54:37]

Yeah.

[54:39]

I was to meet her and I have a great son

[54:42]

that has a result of my marriage who is the greatest kid in the world.

[54:47]

So as much as I've been negative, you know, it's important to be positive too

[54:52]

about the blessings in life and my wife and son are my greatest blessings.

[54:58]

Well, thank you for sharing all that by the way.

[55:00]

And thank you for taking the time.

[55:02]

There's no problem.

[55:02]

I don't mind going back.

[55:03]

Do you know, you know, he loves the talk.

[55:07]

No, but maybe you could just tell the, you know, everyone out there that's watching

[55:13]

our keen aligners, the community, aspiring writers.

[55:15]

Maybe a little word of wisdom.

[55:18]

Well, I would say with a company like keen align existing

[55:24]

and I'm not blowing smoke of the company's backside,

[55:29]

everybody's really legitimately has a shot

[55:35]

at not only getting a movie made, but I know you guys have runner-ups and you option scripts.

[55:43]

And it's there's no, I can't think of a bet away for amateur writers to not only submit

[55:50]

something to have a chance of getting their stuff noticed, but keen align also is a great learning

[55:59]

experience. You know, when you guys talk even on your podcasts, you know, you're giving

[56:07]

out a lot of information, important information about learning script writing.

[56:12]

And, you know, I would just encourage people, my greatest mantra is the William Goldman line

[56:19]

that nobody knows anything.

[56:21]

You say that along here.

[56:22]

I live by that that no matter what people say about your scripts,

[56:27]

you've got to believe in yourself and it's your story.

[56:33]

And the other mantra I have, like I said, is you can get 99 knows.

[56:40]

You only need that one yes.

[56:41]

Yeah.

[56:43]

I heard it here first.

[56:45]

So many knows.

[56:46]

One big yes, change your whole career.

[56:48]

Long to you.

[56:48]

Yes, into the stratosphere of writers and you wrote an amazing film and you've been such a

[56:53]

thank you mentor and a teacher to me and I thank you couldn't repay enough.

[56:57]

And, you know, in this company couldn't have better, everybody have met here is just so nice.

[57:05]

And besides being you guys are all knowledgeable and stuff, but everybody's so nice.

[57:09]

It's nice to have a company.

[57:11]

And like I said, I truly believe in all this, is that anybody working at this company has

[57:17]

been given a free winning lottery ticket.

[57:20]

Lottery ticket.

[57:20]

And just to go to real quick before we leave, like you read the winning screenplay,

[57:24]

Mom and Tally.

[57:24]

So like for those out there that haven't read our screenplays,

[57:28]

this uncovers gems and Fred, you just quickly tell us about Mom and Tally,

[57:32]

just your little assessment of it.

[57:34]

And because it's so unique and so fresh.

[57:41]

And I remember when I was looking at your website the other day, I can say it as well as you

[57:49]

guys said it on the website, but the the log line, what's the log line?

[57:54]

Because the log line was fantastic.

[57:56]

It's a 13 year old suburban kid believes he's the rena carnation of John Gotti and sets out

[58:05]

to get extractor vengeance kill San.

[58:07]

Yeah, I mean, it's really and he's from a Jewish fan.

[58:10]

He's a Jewish family.

[58:10]

Yes.

[58:11]

And you read the script.

[58:12]

I have the text message you're saying this, you know, like, oh, thank God it won.

[58:15]

This is amazing.

[58:16]

Like you wouldn't you wouldn't know if you were very honest.

[58:19]

And if you guys getting scripts of that caliber, yeah, it caliber it's amazing.

[58:25]

So please submit your screenplays in our next competition, any competition to KinoLime,

[58:28]

you're going to have friend of bow rhythm, right?

[58:31]

You know, so people are reading them, not just us in our KinoLime,

[58:34]

there's like four feet, four feet.

[58:36]

No, professional writers are reading these screenplays on the website.

[58:39]

So please go to KinoLime.com, get your screenplay ready for the next competition,

[58:44]

and we'll let you know when that's coming out.

[58:46]

Fred, I just want to say thanks again for coming in.

[58:48]

Thank you guys.

[58:48]

I really appreciate it.

[58:49]

I really enjoyed talking to you guys from everyone here at KinoLime, John Schram.

[58:54]

Danny Murray.

[58:55]

And say your name is Fred LeBot.

[58:57]

There we go.

[58:58]

Thank you so much for joining and we'll speak to you soon.

99 NOs, 1 YES: How Two Broke Writers Created a $200M Rom-Com Hit | Kinolime Podcast Episode 12

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