Hotel Mumbai Producer Reveals How to Make Short Films - Mike Gabrawy | Kinolime Podcast Episode 17

Show Notes

From creative to production, and even financing, there’s a lot to do if you want to make a film, and it’s rarely ever obvious where to start. With the submission deadline for Kinolime’s Short Film Competition (Sept. 18 / info below) only days away, Studio Head John Schramm sits down with Mike Gabrawy, Producer of Hotel Mumbai (2018), Resident Evil (2002), and Independence Day (1996), to discuss the process and hopefully ease some of that anxiety. Short films are described as "popcorn"—they are meant to be consumed, and they serve as an effective way for filmmakers to demonstrate their ability to direct talent and tell a story within a "compartmentalized" structure. They function as excellent "calling cards" that allow filmmakers to find their voice and launch careers. The speaker notes a resurgence in short films due to a lack of entry barriers, highlighting how accessible technology, such as smartphones, has enabled compelling filmmaking on limited budgets. Creative Guidelines and Best Practices Duration: It is advised to keep short films under 10 minutes, with some being as short as three to four minutes. Narrative Structure: Films should stand on their own as complete stories with a beginning, middle, and end, rather than functioning as "proof of concept" pieces designed to sell a larger, open-ended story. Execution: Directors should focus on storytelling and craft, as seen in the work of filmmakers like Nash Edgerton. Production and Financing Building a Crew: When assembling a team, it is recommended to find people on an upward trajectory—such as an art director aiming to be a production designer—who bring experience and are willing to trade their time and labor for the project's success. Financing: Traditional financing for short films is often based on support from friends and family. Filmmakers can seek resources, including grants, from organizations like Film Independent (formerly IFP West) and by investigating programs offered through major film schools like AFI, NYU, and USC.

Full Transcript

[00:00]

there's nothing worse than a short that's too long.

[00:02]

You want to make this short, you know, I don't know,

[00:06]

as close to 10 minutes and under as you can

[00:08]

and sometimes it can be three or four minutes.

[00:10]

They're like popcorn, right?

[00:11]

And they're meant to be consumed

[00:13]

and you get the idea and you can tell.

[00:16]

This person knows how to direct talent

[00:18]

and knows how to move a camera, right?

[00:21]

And tell a story in this super compartmentalized way.

[00:26]

And everyone, we have an amazing guest today.

[00:28]

We have Micah Browey, phoning in from Los Angeles,

[00:31]

very dear friend of mine and a person

[00:33]

that we work closely with here at Keenaline,

[00:35]

joining us live from LA to talk all things short films

[00:38]

from the creative to the production side,

[00:41]

potential financing.

[00:42]

Mic, G, Man, how are you?

[00:45]

I'm very good.

[00:46]

I'm very good.

[00:47]

I'm very good.

[00:48]

I'm very good.

[00:49]

I'm very good.

[00:50]

I'm very good.

[00:51]

I'm very good.

[00:52]

I'm very good.

[00:53]

I'm very good.

[00:54]

Thank you, John.

[00:55]

Thanks for having me on.

[00:56]

Yeah, look at you.

[00:57]

You just always, you have like a glow to you constantly

[01:00]

of just pure joy and happiness.

[01:02]

So sweet.

[01:03]

And I love the Bruce Springsteen, the 1985 Bruce Springsteen jacket

[01:08]

that is fantastic.

[01:10]

So this jacket was given to me by a very talented film director

[01:14]

named Hala.

[01:15]

And she directed, I was, I don't know if you know this, Micah,

[01:18]

but I was the lead actor in a poolside music video.

[01:22]

That has over a million views on YouTube.

[01:24]

And this jacket was what my character wore.

[01:27]

And she sent it to me after we shot in France in Paris,

[01:30]

which is really cool.

[01:31]

Freakluck incident, how that even happened.

[01:33]

But go check it out.

[01:34]

It's a poolside can't stop.

[01:36]

Can't stop your love and.

[01:37]

Can't stop your love and.

[01:39]

I would say, I would cite that jacket being the reason

[01:42]

it went viral.

[01:43]

But that's a thing.

[01:44]

Okay.

[01:45]

Well, speaking of virality and, uh,

[01:48]

the market has changed a lot, right?

[01:50]

Like short films.

[01:51]

I know, Mike, we always talk about this offline,

[01:53]

your love of short films.

[01:54]

And how, you know, we had the golden age of short films.

[01:57]

It used to be a calling card for filmmakers to make a short

[02:00]

and the kind of died out a little bit.

[02:01]

And how they're making a little bit of resurgence.

[02:03]

Maybe love to hear your opinions on shorts

[02:05]

and your love of them and, you know,

[02:07]

everything going on in today's world with short films.

[02:10]

I mean, I think they're making a resurgence

[02:13]

and they're making a short film.

[02:15]

I mean, I think they're making a resurgence

[02:18]

because there's no barrier for entry now.

[02:20]

I mean, I think they're a fantastic way to find your voice.

[02:23]

I mean, invariably short films take longer than features

[02:26]

to make because they are, there's no point of diminishing returns.

[02:29]

You want to make them the absolute best that they can be.

[02:32]

I find short films to be a fantastic, um, you know, calling card.

[02:36]

Like the way they used to be when I first started in the business

[02:38]

after film school.

[02:39]

And I've had so much success in identifying talent in that way.

[02:44]

Um, the director of Anthony Maris, who directed Hotel Mumbai.

[02:48]

For me, I saw somebody had encouraged me to watch his short film,

[02:51]

which was called The Palace.

[02:52]

And I saw a short film and like, well, there's no one else

[02:55]

that I want to direct Hotel Mumbai because there were so many parallels.

[02:59]

The palace was about the Greek Cypriot War in the 70s.

[03:02]

And it was a harrowing like, you know, almost felt like a documentary.

[03:06]

And that's what he translated to in the feature of Hotel Mumbai.

[03:10]

So I think there are a great way to show your voice,

[03:13]

so the, you know, the approach you have to filmmaking.

[03:16]

And the best ones end up being calling cards and, you know, launching careers.

[03:22]

We couldn't agree more.

[03:23]

And this is the exact reason why we're in our first ever keen-aligned feature,

[03:27]

a short competition that's going on right now.

[03:30]

We've had like over well over a thousand submissions of short films

[03:33]

that you know, need deeper reading and going through.

[03:36]

And like, we just, we hear a keen-aligned, just love, love, love short films.

[03:40]

Maybe Mike, you can help educate the people watching at home about where do you start?

[03:45]

Okay, you want to make a short.

[03:46]

So, you know, you need the idea.

[03:48]

But which is obviously the first step.

[03:50]

But when you're thinking about the idea, can you maybe give us some guidelines

[03:53]

or some tips of how do you frame that idea to make it achievable?

[03:57]

It's a complete, it's a really good question.

[04:00]

I think it's a, I think people confuse it for, I think the short step for me don't work

[04:05]

are the ones that are meant to be a, you know, that are meant to be like kind of open-ended

[04:10]

or to launch to something.

[04:12]

They're like, they're like a very different animal than a feature film.

[04:17]

They're popcorn, right?

[04:18]

Like, they are meant to be consumed.

[04:20]

There are amazing shorts out there.

[04:22]

I would encourage everybody to watch Nash Edgerton's short films, right?

[04:26]

This is Joe Edgerton's brother.

[04:28]

He's done a couple of shorts, spider, bear, another one called bear.

[04:32]

They're fantastic.

[04:34]

And they should live as their own entity.

[04:38]

Rather than being, hey, I'm going to get a set up.

[04:40]

You don't know how this happened, how it goes.

[04:42]

Help me make the feature.

[04:44]

They have to kind of stand in my mind, stand on their own.

[04:47]

A couple of like, you know, kind of practical standpoints.

[04:50]

There's nothing worse than a short that's too long.

[04:53]

You want to make this short, you know, I don't know, as close to 10 minutes and under as you can.

[04:59]

And sometimes it can be three or four minutes.

[05:01]

They're like popcorn, right?

[05:02]

They're meant to be consumed and you get the idea and you can tell.

[05:06]

This person knows how to direct talent and knows how to move a camera, right?

[05:11]

And tell a story in this super compartmentalized way.

[05:15]

You can see fantastic examples of this in commercial work too, where like, especially kind of in earlier days of commercials in the 90s and 80s.

[05:27]

There were these, there were like little short films onto themselves and they told a story in a contained amount of time.

[05:32]

So that's a really interesting point.

[05:34]

So you're recommending that because we see this a lot with, we call them like proof of concepts, right?

[05:39]

It's someone filming a piece of a larger story to keep it open ended.

[05:43]

And then you're like, hey, did I entice you enough to buy this concept from me?

[05:47]

You recommend keeping it more in a story format where it's like beginning of the middle of an end, right?

[05:53]

More of a complete story arc, so to speak.

[05:57]

I think so because otherwise it's a proof of concept, right?

[06:00]

Yeah.

[06:01]

Otherwise what you're making is a, is there something to sell something else?

[06:04]

If you want to have this standalone, I did a, I was part of an incubator program called search lab at Fox Searchlight back in the,

[06:12]

I want to say in the kind of early 2000s at some point.

[06:16]

And I made this short film called peacock with Michael Lander that was, and I mean,

[06:22]

one of the best experiences I've ever had.

[06:24]

It was a fantastic short film.

[06:26]

And this was a, and it was a short version of his screenplay.

[06:30]

A screenplay went on to be on the black list.

[06:32]

It got, it got made by Lionsgate years later.

[06:35]

But it was, and he had, I don't know.

[06:37]

That's interesting.

[06:38]

Yeah.

[06:39]

A dozen off this, it was a first time director, first time feature director.

[06:42]

He had a dozen, he had a dozen Oscar winners in front of him behind the camera.

[06:48]

It was kind of an amazing thing.

[06:50]

The short film stood on its own as a story and it was fantastic.

[06:55]

So, and I think that that project was such a difficult subject matter that that short,

[07:03]

that stood on its own was part of like when the screenplay got the attention from the black list,

[07:10]

it helped it, it helped to get made and very mental produced it.

[07:13]

I think he produced Munich, like an amazing producer.

[07:15]

Oh, wow.

[07:16]

Yeah.

[07:17]

And then it had, it was just an amazing cast.

[07:21]

You can look it up.

[07:22]

It's called peacock.

[07:23]

So now you have the screenplay.

[07:25]

You've got your creative.

[07:26]

Now let's talk about the, the crowing up.

[07:28]

You know, obviously in L.A., there are tons of people that work in the business.

[07:33]

So it's a little bit easier to get your hands on those that are capable.

[07:36]

So maybe Mike some, some input, some advice for those that have the screenplay and now want to maybe execute that on a physical production side.

[07:43]

Okay.

[07:44]

So I would say that every city, I think every medium to large city in America has an independent film community.

[07:51]

I think L.A. is probably one of the more challenging places for that because it's so mired in the actual industry, business side of the industry.

[07:58]

So it's hard to find those folks that are more indie minded.

[08:01]

But what I find is you want to find people like when you're looking for crew, you want to find people that are moving up.

[08:07]

You want to find an art director that wants to be a production designer.

[08:10]

You want to find a second AD that wants to become a first AD or a line producer.

[08:14]

And you find those people that are on their way up and they have a ton of experience in their world.

[08:19]

And what they can bring to your short because they want the experience to a first AD or a production manager.

[08:25]

I want to produce.

[08:26]

That's my end goal.

[08:27]

I want to create and help you.

[08:28]

So you're going to find people on those on that trajectory and you're just building your team, right?

[08:33]

Like there are fantastic examples of the kind of mumble core movement in Austin back in the day where these guys all

[08:41]

all screwed up on each other's movies to get it made.

[08:43]

Sure.

[08:44]

The blue tongue group is exactly what I'm talking about.

[08:47]

It's Joel Edgerton, Nash Edgerton.

[08:50]

I'm forgetting the director that did animal kingdom.

[08:52]

I'm spacing, but in tracks.

[08:54]

But like these, this collective of directors that help each other.

[08:58]

So you want to find that, you want to find your team that you're going to be able to execute this with.

[09:03]

And, and it's just, I find in the short films that I've done, you've never seen people being more generous with their time, with their resources.

[09:13]

Then when they see people trying to make, when they see you trying to make your, you know, your short film and your films.

[09:20]

It is, yeah, you're just, it's a really big part of the process.

[09:24]

And by the way, I, you know, I talked to recent film grads all the time.

[09:28]

There's no barrier for entry now.

[09:30]

You know, I talk about Sean Baker making his first feature.

[09:34]

There were four films submitted to Sundance that year that were shot on an iPhone, right?

[09:38]

I have an anamorphic lens for my iPhone from moment.

[09:42]

Like four films are submitted.

[09:44]

His got in.

[09:45]

It sold for a million dollars.

[09:47]

His next film got nominated for an Oscar, which is a project.

[09:50]

And now like he's like had a number of, you know, got a number of accolades on, on an aura.

[09:56]

So like there's a trajectory that you can look at in a compressed amount of time.

[10:00]

His first film was, you know, was kind of done on an iPhone.

[10:05]

And it was compelling, Tangerine.

[10:06]

It was incredibly compelling and, you know, in personal and, and heartbreaking and all that.

[10:13]

So that's an inspiration for me that anybody can make a film that is even a feature or short film for, you know, a fraction of what it cost when I started in a business and you were shooting film and had to get big cameras and sharp labs and things like that.

[10:29]

So we got the screenplay, the creative down, you got the crew.

[10:33]

Now this probably should have been first, but we'll go last is on the financing side.

[10:37]

Do you have any insights and tips about grants or avenues to go down if you're trying to make your first feature?

[10:42]

Obviously using your own funds is one way, but do you have any experience in that, that feel that you could partake?

[10:48]

I don't have specifics on that because it really is something that's all friends and family support.

[10:55]

That's how I think it comes.

[10:56]

I think what you're going to do is you're going to find people on the post production side and crew and that can help give you in kind services.

[11:02]

But traditional financing for short films, it's out there, I'm sure.

[11:06]

I don't know, I don't know what they are.

[11:09]

There are these incubator programs, but like that's the way search lab was back in the day.

[11:14]

It meant to incubate directors for search light eventually.

[11:18]

But that's just doing a deep dive on the resources.

[11:22]

I think there are places like independent feature project East, I think.

[11:28]

And then it is now called film independent in LA that used to be IFP West.

[11:33]

Yeah, film and funds great.

[11:34]

They have a midwestern office, they have East Coast West Coast, they have tons of resources on grants and resources for independent filmmakers.

[11:43]

I would go mind those indie friendly organizations.

[11:47]

And then I would look at the film schools that are like AFI, NYU, USC, the ones that are the prominent ones and see how those, you know, what resources are available to those young filmmakers to do what they're doing.

[12:01]

And that's just a lot of legwork.

[12:03]

Micah Browley, always a pleasure, learned so much every time we talk.

[12:06]

Thank you so much for giving us the time today, I really appreciate it.

[12:08]

It's always good luck and I can't wait to see these amazing shorts.

[12:11]

That's right.

[12:12]

And everyone at home, thank you so much for joining.

[12:14]

If you like us, like us, subscribe, comment, do everything you need to do on the bottom to have more of these great videos coming your way.

[12:20]

And we appreciate it and don't forget our keynote line short film competition is coming to a close next week in terms of submission.

[12:26]

So get them in now so we can read them and get them onto the next round.

[12:29]

Thank you so much.

Hotel Mumbai Producer Reveals How to Make Short Films - Mike Gabrawy | Kinolime Podcast Episode 17

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