The Art of Fear: Woody Bess on the Evolution of Horror | Kinolime Podcast Ep 23

Show Notes

This video features a discussion between host Meara Owen-Griffiths (Creative Executive) and filmmaker/screenwriter Woody Bess as they celebrate Halloween by reviewing the history of the horror genre through a decade-by-decade look at their favorite films and screenplays.1

The conversation includes recommendations and insights for the following decades: 1940s: The host recommends I Walked with a Zombie (1943), citing its influence on folk horror and its unique use of a Caribbean setting to explore colonial themes.2 1950s: Woody Bess suggests Invasion of the Body Snatchers as a "peak red scare" metaphor reflecting 1950s American anxieties. The host counters with House of Wax (1953), highlighting its garish effects and Vincent Price's performance.34 1960s: Woody selects Night of the Living Dead for its massive success as an independent film and its mastery of suspense. The host recommends Peeping Tom (1960) for its revolutionary use of psychological horror and a protagonist as the "bad guy".56 1970s: Both speakers agree on Alien as a pinnacle of sci-fi horror, praising its world-building and Dan O'Bannon's script. The host also gives a nod to the folk horror classic The Wicker Man.78 1980s: Woody champions John Carpenter's The Thing for its practical effects and atmosphere of paranoia. The host suggests A Nightmare on Elm Street for its creative antagonist and its exploration of the vulnerability of sleep.910 1990s: The host chooses Candyman as a quintessential urban legend film that addressed social economics and race relations. Woody selects Event Horizon for its wild, high-concept "balls to the wall" energy.1112 2000s: The host picks Ginger Snaps (2000) for its metaphorical use of lycanthropy to explore female adolescence. Woody selects Saw for its immense influence on the decade's focus on mystery and hyper-violence.1314 2010s: Both speakers highlight It Follows for its constant sense of dread and its clever inversion of horror tropes. They also discuss the impact of Ari Aster's films, Hereditary and Midsommar.1516 2020s: The host nominates We're All Going to the World's Fair (2022) for its "creepypasta" aesthetic. Woody recommends Talk to Me, praising its practical effects and its portrayal of the bad decisions made by teenagers.

Full Transcript

[00:00]

I feel like the 90s is really when we took the hard turn, maybe with Elm Street actually,

[00:04]

we took the hard turn into urban legend rather than folk horror, which is kind of more relatable.

[00:09]

It's one of those stories that everyone's got a friend of a friend who this happened to.

[00:14]

It's like they're very easily tailored to be passed around the world.

[00:18]

In the 90s with the advent of global communication and the internet, I feel like it became a way

[00:24]

more personal under you. You don't need to go to the Caribbean or to space anymore.

[00:27]

It's like your neighborhood, right?

[00:38]

Happy Halloween, you know, live, me or here, over in Ireland, the ancestral home of Halloween.

[00:44]

And I'm very pleased today to introduce you to a client and buddy of mine, Mr. Woody Bess,

[00:50]

all the way over from California. What are you doing today?

[00:54]

Good. Thanks for having me.

[00:56]

Awesome. And could you kindly give us a little bit of background on, you know, who you are and what you do?

[01:05]

Yeah, I'm a filmmaker. I'm a huge horror fan, so I just finished my first feature film,

[01:12]

I'll pull the hell that will hopefully be out next year. And then I'm a writer, DP mostly.

[01:21]

That's the idea, everything, but I'm really happy to be here.

[01:24]

Yeah, so what do you, it was a client of mine that we worked together recently on a project of his

[01:30]

and he is the most fantastic horror screenwriter you're going to come across. So remember the name

[01:36]

Woody Bess, because you're going to be seeing it in a lot of credits in coming years on movie posters.

[01:42]

So I mean, Woody, I'd like to think that you are a face of the future of horror. And with it,

[01:49]

being Halloween, I thought what better time and who better to talk about it with and talk about,

[01:54]

you know, the entire history of horror as a genre. So today, what we're going to do is we're going to

[01:59]

go through decade by decade and we're going to give each other some recommendations on our favorite

[02:04]

screenplays or films from that decade. That's how good with you. Yeah, great. Awesome. All right,

[02:12]

well, I'm going to get us started then. I'm going to give us a 1940s recommendation, which is

[02:17]

as early as we're going. We could go earlier, but I think in terms of I like to kind of look at

[02:21]

things with available screenplays and you know, it's a bit of it's the Wild West when you go 1940

[02:26]

or earlier, but I'm going to start with 1943s. I walked with a zombie, which is an incredible

[02:33]

film and screenplay. It's written by Kurt Siobdmack, I believe it's pronounced, but don't quote me on

[02:40]

that and Ardell Ray. It's an Archeo Pictures movie. What I love about it so much is that I think it's

[02:48]

one of the most influential horror movies of all time, because for me, it's the first one that

[02:56]

really taps into both folk horror as like a, as a topic of study and thematic, you know, meditation.

[03:08]

It takes basically what's like a bronchee novel, like a jane air type situation. It puts it in

[03:13]

the Caribbean. It's about zombies, but the zombies are like a stand-in for like a colonial,

[03:22]

like lingering, you know, effect basically, which it sounds really odd, but it's so cool because it

[03:29]

also takes place like 20 years before kind of what we know as like zombies existed. So it's so

[03:34]

precocious. It's an incredible screenplay and film. It's like an hour and five minutes long,

[03:40]

really short. I think it's probably free on YouTube if you haven't seen it. I've never, yeah,

[03:47]

I'm like intrigued and it's all curved like all takes place in the Caribbean. Yeah, all in the

[03:55]

Caribbean or yeah, after the first seven minutes, it's all in the Caribbean. It's all kind of local

[04:00]

casts in it as well. A lot of it's not in English. A lot of it doesn't have subtitles. It really

[04:05]

throws you off the deep end. And it's the kind of thing that could feel kind of like exploitative or

[04:11]

or you know, like being the 1940s, I think you could very easily feel weird about how it's presented,

[04:16]

but it's very respectful. It's very kind of like we're actually the strangers in this situation.

[04:22]

And it took takes the, like I say, folk horror in something that I mean, I'm sure we'll talk about

[04:26]

midsummer when we get to the 2010s. That kind of planting you as a fish out of water in a new

[04:32]

situation is kind of that's that's half of what horror has been for, you know, like nearly a hundred

[04:38]

years. So I wanted to give a big shout out to I walked with a zombie great poster as well. I don't

[04:43]

know if you'd like movie posters at all. I really, I just bought a new house and I'm so excited

[04:48]

to put up all these movie posters on on on my wall. So I walked with the zombies gotta be up there.

[04:55]

Especially the criterion collection, the criterion collection released a copy of it not so

[05:00]

long ago. And yeah, fantastic poster. So that's my 1940s suggestion. How would you feel about

[05:08]

kicking us off with the 1950s suggestion? Yeah, 1950s. So this one's like kind of interesting because

[05:14]

like it's been done a lot and it's actually kind of interesting of like where the states is as a

[05:22]

country every time they had to have it. But invasion of the body snatchers, the original first

[05:27]

adaptation is kind of like this like peak red scare kind of like metaphor of like we were so

[05:36]

terrified of like communism and like it's communism and like kind of like this perfect

[05:43]

called people like everyone. Perfect society against like American individualism. I just like

[05:50]

think the first one like all of them are great because they all kind of like reflect like a

[05:56]

different period because like by the time they get to the most famous like Donald Sutherland,

[06:01]

it's almost the opposite where it's like people who don't fit into like American consumerism.

[06:09]

But like in the 1950s it's you know we have to be individuals. That's for instance,

[06:16]

for Americans versus like these con people that have no emotion, have no anything.

[06:24]

It's just like a great

[06:27]

aeronoid film. Yeah, it's in the first one.

[06:33]

So when do you think that it became so commonplace for a horror to be you know,

[06:38]

serve as a metaphor like if we tried to pinpoint that do you think that it's always been there

[06:42]

or do you think that I mean for me the 50s was very much a time where metaphor kind of bloomed

[06:49]

is kind of what horror is about. Yeah. And do you feel like you know, invasion of the body snatchers

[06:54]

is like a you know, a quintessential sort of example of that? Yeah, because like I think like

[07:00]

especially like those periods where like you weren't allowed to do like to do certain things like

[07:08]

or like there was kind of the what the haze guidelines of like the decency guidelines.

[07:14]

So like you had to like work in metaphor and like horror has always kind of been

[07:20]

I don't know like a I guess like a little bit more free like maybe because people

[07:29]

then historically taking it as seriously as a drama like you can kind of get away with

[07:35]

being a little bit more subversive.

[07:39]

Yeah, you say that it pushes they pushes the envelope a little more than kind of other genres

[07:44]

with the fear of opening. Thanks. So definitely like you have a little bit more freedom to kind of

[07:50]

you know, do you want to. That's what I think we love about it and why there's so many like

[07:55]

trailblazing screenplays and films on on this list. That's a really good shout. My pick for the 50s

[08:03]

I went with House of Wax 1953. It's a crane Wilbur kind of really it's completely the opposite

[08:10]

of I walked with a zombie which is like understated House of Wax is like garish like technical

[08:16]

or 3D effects like this one probably spits on you in the cinema while you're like watching the movie

[08:20]

you know it's like very very gross and it's kind of yeah it's about a guy who creates this

[08:29]

this Wax Museum of kind of like a Madame Tussaud type situation and it's you know it could be really

[08:35]

again really kind of nasty and in your face which is what it sounds like but there's a surprisingly

[08:41]

complex story it's kind of like a Frankenstein sort of but instead of an obsession you know with

[08:50]

with potential and you know creating life it's like creating mimicry of life and it kind of shows

[08:56]

that the line is very it's like a lot slimmer than you'd think it would be and it's been some

[09:01]

price obviously who is like the face of you know horror movies and a lot of the hammer horror stuff so

[09:07]

yeah that's gonna be up there for me I think you got this one one though I think that yeah

[09:12]

invasion of the body snatchers it's been so influential and I bet a lot of the films on this list

[09:18]

will will kind of be inspired directly or indirectly by that so yeah I think I think you won the

[09:24]

50s my friend um there's a reason the the remake of House of Wax. Say that again.

[09:31]

Deb you seeing the remake of House of Wax? I have not it's 2005 it's I mean it didn't get very

[09:37]

good reviews at the time I mean I was a kid I never bothered watching it is it is it is it worth

[09:42]

well it's like it's getting more so like oh I mean we'll get to this when we get to like the early

[09:48]

2000s but early 2000s is kind of like this wild period of horror. It's like it's like this

[09:55]

gross and like like give me like yeah it does have its momentum it's kind of got a cool room

[10:04]

for sure all right so um 1960s you have something to lead us with? Yeah I mean it's gonna be like a

[10:11]

pretty expected choice but like the original night of the living dead like incredible yeah like

[10:18]

incredible film and then also like one of the greatest indie films ever made like they made the

[10:25]

things for like 100 grand in like Pittsburgh next to nothing it makes like I think 30 million

[10:34]

at the box office so it's like the most one of the most successful like independent films and also

[10:41]

just like yeah yeah yeah like just crazy and then like there's so many voices they make that are

[10:50]

just interesting but it's also like people locked in one house it still people are still making

[10:55]

those types of films today and it just like works yeah that's seen where they're kind of they

[11:01]

realize that they're being sort of like you know surrounded on all sides and they're yeah

[11:05]

from one side of the house to the other is so good it's like really as a screenplay it's like a

[11:10]

masterclass in in suspense and feeling overwhelmed as well like yeah you know all those ones where

[11:16]

you've got the screenplay in your hand and you kind of don't realize until you turn the page

[11:20]

there's like indents from your fingers because you're like gripping it so tightly it's like yeah

[11:25]

what a yeah great great choice um yeah okay so I'm gonna count you with that I mean again

[11:32]

super iconic my personal favor of the 60s came right at the start is 1960 Leo Marx peeping Tom

[11:40]

I don't know if you've seen this one it's a really weird it's kind of it this is way more

[11:45]

psychological horror than most of the horror on this list but basically it's about a guy who gets

[11:53]

a camera just a film camera which he uses for a kind of magazine photographs and it's about

[11:59]

voyeurism and kind of what you know becomes kind of trying to capture you know it begins to

[12:04]

try to capture beauty and try to capture you know moments in time and then kind of he begins to

[12:10]

understand you know the death is this beautiful fleeting thing and begins shooting images of dead

[12:16]

people and that leads into killing people in order to take photos of them it's super super um

[12:23]

unnerving again it's another great screenplay maybe even slightly better than the film itself the

[12:28]

screenplay but um super unnerving and and again really precocious a lot of my pics here I've chosen

[12:35]

because of how influential they've gone on to become they may have been like box office hits at

[12:40]

the time but they've really left like such a you so many fingerprints on you know you peeping Tom

[12:47]

like it's it's got you know you can see it in something like a zodiac you know fincher zodiac or

[12:55]

a night crawler you know it's very much kind of this psychological horror where you're actually on

[13:00]

the side of you know like what's really like the bad guy you know the bad guy is the is the

[13:05]

protagonist and I think again that was so uh revolutionary at the time so I don't know we

[13:12]

have to leave it to see uh what the viewers and the people in the comments have to say about

[13:16]

after those pics is better I mean yours probably more influential but I'm minds of sleeper hit

[13:21]

which phone would you put like peeping Tom or rear window rear oh no peeping Tom I

[13:27]

know I don't know there's still like there's a whimsy-toreer window I think about yeah looking

[13:32]

in people through the lens where you feel a little bit bad about it but you're also kind of

[13:36]

you're watching a mystery unfold and you feel like very justified in in watching what is is taking

[13:43]

place whereas peeping Tom is so invasive and uncomfortable like it really gets under your skin um

[13:50]

so very hard to compare actually it's a good point I should probably do like a a side-by-side

[13:54]

analysis of them at some point but um peeping Tom and again another great poster I'm such a

[13:59]

sorry for a poster man um and uh yeah peeping Tom's up there for me that's going in my new house also

[14:07]

all right um do you want to start with the 70s you want me to start yeah you start you start

[14:14]

okay I've got two choices here okay I think I have to go for alien alien is so good and I think

[14:22]

it's underrated because you know at the time it was pitched as like it's jaws put in space which

[14:27]

you know jaws I mean great movie I there's again there's so much like whimsy to jaws that like I

[14:32]

I find it difficult to consider it a straight horror um but alien is like it's like the top of the

[14:38]

pile for sci-fi and horror it's like two and one the way that it unfolds you don't really know who

[14:44]

your protagonist is for so long the antagonist isn't a person or a monster it's just like this

[14:50]

thing it's like a force of nature um I think the fact that alien has been so enduring in uh you know

[14:58]

a way that other horror hasn't um just his really testament to Daniel O'Bannon's script um which I

[15:06]

think we he had to really fight also I don't know if you know about this but uh he got that taken

[15:10]

off him and then it was rewritten and then the two guys who were eroded got like the WGA credit at

[15:15]

first and then he had to like fight to get it back or whatever and just I don't know that

[15:19]

of writers what he can you imagine how it would feel to write something as incredible as alien and

[15:23]

then you don't get credit for it so he did thank God eventually got it back but um yeah I think

[15:28]

there's a little bit of empathy for me there as a writer with uh with dance plight so that's

[15:34]

probably gonna be my 70s um pick personally what about you that was actually that was my I like I um

[15:41]

I just think like there's a reason like we're still watching alien movies and shows now and like

[15:47]

it's honestly like it's a pretty like

[15:52]

simple like direct horror but there's so much world building he put into it with like

[15:59]

the companies running the world is just kind of like alluded to and like shares or currency and like

[16:06]

now like with alien earth they've like built like a whole plot just based off that one thing

[16:11]

he just threw into a script and then like even like the mechanics of the alien are so weird

[16:16]

but like so specific and like even like the illusion to the engineers and like kind of like the

[16:23]

like space jockey that we used to call it and like kind of like there's just so much like

[16:29]

depths to the world and you're just seeing like the lit like the like the horror part of it but like

[16:36]

it's all there and it's also interesting and it's like such a cool and I was like

[16:42]

building a universe and then seeing like this tiny little part of it is just such an interesting

[16:47]

way to make film or write a screenplay and it's like great still like why it's I think in part like

[16:53]

it's a great monster but like that's part of the reason it lasted is like there's so much

[16:57]

depths to the world he built say neither of these are on my list in any shape or form but

[17:02]

I actually love Prometheus I know it's pretty unpopular and I just finished alien earth which I

[17:08]

think is also kind of mixed online but I really like that as well I'm like I'm pretty simple I

[17:13]

love you know give me like alien in like a grimy box and like a greasy like corridor and I'm

[17:18]

there you know I'll go and see it until I expire yeah Prometheus like I still like don't get like why

[17:27]

I was like like this like the cast like they're like kind of like just the ideas in it of like

[17:34]

the opening there's like this thing sacrificing itself to make humanity it's like that's like

[17:39]

10 films right there it's just like and then alien earth is like great because like they're kind of

[17:46]

that eyeball monster in the sheep is like one of the best images yeah and it's just staring

[17:53]

at it's just like waiting and like they've kind of like realized like okay we've seen

[17:58]

the xenomorph enough it's like kind of expand and see some of the other

[18:03]

cabinets in an infinite universe there's potentially you know infinite horrible things that will

[18:10]

you know chop them so yeah for sure that's yeah I mean shout out to alien earth I think yeah God

[18:17]

hope it gets a second series because there's a lot of unanswered questions but I mean this

[18:20]

all comes back to Dan O'Bannon what originally he called star beast he sat on it as a spec script for

[18:26]

eight years I think before the Star Wars hype made sci-fi cool and you know God bless them because

[18:33]

yeah here we are like what nearly 50 years later and still so enduring so I think we're in agreement

[18:39]

then alien is kind of 70s yeah for sure I want to give a quick shout out to the wicker man as well

[18:45]

1977 Anthony Schaefer I you know I'm British and it's got such a I think it's so influential as a

[18:51]

British film it's got such a place a special place in my heart and again kind of going back to

[18:57]

I walked with a zombie and all the way up to midsummer it's this like folk weirdness of just like

[19:01]

I don't understand what's happening but these people obviously do and I don't want to like get involved

[19:06]

but I can't let it slide and yeah wicker man also that's got to got to be a close second for me

[19:11]

all right I want to hear your eighties picks because God the eighties has got to be maybe the strongest

[19:17]

decade yeah ever for horror so I I've got three that I could go with here and I'm still inside it's

[19:24]

let me hear yours first and then like I it's probably like my all-time favorite so I watched it

[19:31]

multiple times years missing like John Carpenter each day then even like the reboot that uses like

[19:37]

CGI like the original thing like the practical facts like the uh I can just pee paranoia like

[19:44]

the set in like everything about it is just like perfect and like uh and it was like wildly

[19:52]

unpopular when it came out right and I didn't actually know I was like reading about it like

[19:58]

people called like Carpenter a pornography and violence and he almost like quit so make and

[20:03]

they basically took like almost like 10 to 20 years before people like we're like

[20:08]

other things actually like right yeah honestly eventually got the credit it deserves yeah yeah

[20:15]

I mean I yeah I could again I couldn't agree more I mean that was one of my three picks I mean

[20:19]

I might pick something different for the eighties just because I think I'd love to hear you are you

[20:24]

for the thing because um guys at home uh what do you recently recommended me this bizarre story which is

[20:31]

uh it's like the thing that told from the perspective of the thing and it arrives on earth and it

[20:37]

like doesn't understand that humans are like autonomous because previously where it's been

[20:42]

creatures are all like no no not symbiotic they're like a hive mind or they're capable of

[20:47]

splintering and re-attaching so like obviously you're a super fan you've gone down the rabbit hole

[20:54]

of uh I don't know if being fan fiction basically um so I mean look I'm gonna struggle to argue with you but

[21:03]

I might go I might put a nightmare in Elm Street in the ring as well you know as much as I love

[21:08]

the thing and I'm in Elm Street I think it was one of the first horror films that I watched and

[21:12]

this was back when you could watch uh horror movies on YouTube in like 2005 to 2008 they'd be

[21:17]

split into 10 10 12 parts because you could only upload like 10 minute videos at a time and sometimes

[21:22]

one of them would get taken down to say that was song in it you just have to like fill in what happened

[21:26]

for the last 10 minutes um I really love uh Elm Street uh it's not been a great franchise beyond kind

[21:34]

of the first one but so weird so different and really kind of taking the like super popular

[21:40]

slashers genre and managing to make it into something more like you know a theory or like beyond

[21:46]

the planes of reality and kind of what you do in life carries over into dreams which happens to

[21:51]

all of us but then what happens in dreams carrying over into real life which is a scary thought as well

[21:57]

super iconic antagonist design really capable and competent character and Nancy I really love

[22:04]

Nancy as a character um and uh yeah great music the sound of the the the the clothes on the pipes

[22:12]

in the boiler room just in my brain forever um yeah what are your thoughts on on Elm Street

[22:19]

yeah it's like a great like of like what if you could just die in your dreams and house

[22:26]

looked up with that being like it's kind of like like anything that gets like

[22:33]

when we're asleep we're safe right like it's like kind of like such a core part of like

[22:38]

even my bed I'm safe it's the safest place in theory and like it just flips that on its head so

[22:44]

it's like just a great premise in terms of like you know what's supposed to be safe is not

[22:52]

like that's kind of enough to make a great horror film for sure um and I guess yeah and similar

[22:59]

it's got some similarities to the thing in that you know you're isolated and you you should feel

[23:06]

safe in this environment and yeah it takes that away from you and yeah and look I don't I don't

[23:13]

think I can probably argue on the thing I think you you win the uh you win the 80s um I do love

[23:19]

them yeah but yeah shout out to uh shout out to it was it Bill Lancaster who wrote the thing I'm

[23:25]

pretty sure um yeah great great screaming it's a remake which nobody seems to know um yeah

[23:31]

you know the like you're 50 world yeah and it's based on a novel so our next time someone's like

[23:38]

oh they're remaking this it's like well you know they remade the thing and it paid off so

[23:42]

yeah yeah that's a great choice and um probably the snowiest entry on this list I would say there's

[23:49]

not a lot of snowy horror films do you ever think think about that yeah I like I love the good snowy

[23:54]

horror like this it's like it's kind of uh you're trapped in one location in like this you know

[24:00]

snow is like the best you can't read your head says this now you can't know it in yeah I guess

[24:05]

and maybe maybe makes it kind of relatable to people living in snowy places yeah

[24:10]

and vitamin all right okay so I'll get us started on the 90s now I think the 90s is probably the

[24:16]

decade I struggled the most with um I think there's a lot of bad uh 90s horror and uh something

[24:25]

that's really interesting as well so far is that from the 40s right up to the 80s for 40 years

[24:31]

I feel like we were kind of mostly doing like folk horror stuff which is to say it's about like

[24:36]

you know uh a new place and something happening in that you know place and it's kind of related to

[24:43]

like a mythology or uh you know a legend or something of that sort but I feel like the 90s is

[24:49]

really when we took that the hard turn maybe with Elm Street actually we took the hard turn into

[24:53]

like urban legend rather than like folk horror yeah just kind of more local it's like a little

[24:59]

more relatable it's one of those stories that everyone's got like a friend of a friend who

[25:03]

this happened to you know it's like they're very easily tailored to be passed around the world

[25:08]

and the 90s were the advent of like global communication and the internet I feel like it became

[25:14]

all like way more personal and and um you know you could it could happen the next town over to you

[25:20]

like way easier you know you don't need to go to the Caribbean or to space anymore it's like

[25:24]

your neighborhood right um so I mean I think that that was like the most interesting from the 90s

[25:30]

and into the 2000s that's kind of uh wow it was kind of reing up for this it was something I found

[25:35]

but um that big said candy man I feel like is maybe like a quintessential like urban legend right

[25:42]

yeah um it's you know right down to the fact of like say this five times and he shows up behind you

[25:48]

is like the type of thing that like kids are like oh I could I could do that like oh I'm gonna stop

[25:52]

it four times we'll see if this guy I'll say it five times and you know it's got like at this

[25:57]

like blossoming mythology um which I think is really really cool I think it's a really strong

[26:03]

screenplay again it's another one of these that I'm like is this actually stronger than the film

[26:08]

the in the writing it's um uh burn rose was the writer and um you know I'm not from America and you

[26:17]

know uh I'm not kind of clued in on things as much as you are but I mean you know from my understanding

[26:23]

of what um you know how kind of Chicago is divided and um kind of you know the race relations uh

[26:30]

and you know tying this into like American history and kind of like contemporary um I don't know

[26:36]

what you call it like social economics or whatever um it was kind of super interesting and like

[26:42]

pretty brave like you kind of pushed push the boat out of it's times and yeah yeah and just kind

[26:49]

of like at the end it's like a guy with a hook for a hand and a and a trench coat but it manages

[26:53]

to be like terrifying like it's just really really scary um great performances and just making

[26:59]

use of like what's available to you in terms of like it's a college campus and like kind of crappy

[27:04]

like at which call like apartment blocks or tenement housing or whatever and um yeah it feels

[27:10]

it feels it feels so real uh I love it for that was it like just a different

[27:15]

that and then you normally see an horrors of like usually like the cities as too many people

[27:20]

it's who sit it's always like the suburbs and now we're like in the city and like

[27:25]

built to this day I don't repeat shit in the mirror animal maps they can't even five times

[27:30]

or bloody vary like I just not wouldn't do it no it's not why why why Bob like you don't get

[27:38]

anything out of it there's nothing in pain there no it's a great uh yeah candy man's great

[27:45]

obviously Tony Todd's one of the best tour icons here so what's your what's your 90s pick

[27:53]

and this one is also like you probably for all the reasons you laid out or kind of return into like

[28:01]

urban legends I'm going against that there's like a lot of like like sounds of the lambs comes

[28:07]

in the 90s obviously like Oscar winning yeah I don't know like yeah I mean like kind of more like

[28:15]

really than like a traditional horror but like still like probably a lot of people to say

[28:20]

one a few horrors to like win the Oscar but I'm going the opposite way I'm going with a film that

[28:26]

whatever reason I just love I think it's like hilarious but event horizon or none of you've ever

[28:33]

seen it yeah yeah of course it's just yeah I don't think that's one I'd even cross across my mind when

[28:39]

I was it shouldn't it shouldn't it's like it's just for me because like it's just

[28:46]

damn Neil who like great actor just going nuts and like this is like after his like very

[28:55]

of dude Jurassic Park like everything he's done his career

[29:00]

but all of a sudden he's naked just beating the shit out of Lawrence fishburn because their ship

[29:06]

is going to hell and it's just like one of the most wild weird 90s films I'd highly recommend

[29:14]

if you haven't seen it there's so much and I have seen it and do you do feel like it was like a

[29:19]

a role that was almost made for Nick Cage like the fact that it isn't Nick Cage is so weird like

[29:24]

it's so much better forward as much as I love Nick Cage but that like unhinged freak like who

[29:30]

do I thought Sam Neil would be the guy to play in well that's like the funny part is because like

[29:34]

it's like Sam Neil like coming off of like very successful Jurassic Park and like and then he's in

[29:41]

event horizon it's like what what are you doing but like so much better because he's got like so much

[29:49]

like gravity or like weight and like he's doing this role that's like ridiculous

[29:56]

but yeah very like interesting like high concept sort of ideas well like if you kind of sold

[30:03]

me the log line or maybe even like a you know like a treatment of like 10 pages or whatever

[30:09]

if I like to fill that out you'd get nothing like what the film is actually like it's one of

[30:14]

those ones where you know an elevator picture log line is not just cannot sell you a lot that

[30:19]

film is it so like you know balls to the wall crazy yeah so I mean I got respected for that

[30:26]

that being said I'm winning the 90s I think yeah yeah no no if I do know if you want it okay yeah

[30:33]

I think I think Candyman's got to take that one home yeah and all right oh so it looks like we're

[30:38]

into the 21st century all right so 2000's very weird because to me this feels so

[30:48]

segregated into like pre and post 2005 like more than any other decade now that being said I've

[30:55]

gone for two thousand ginger snaps you've seen this a ginger I mean not ginger sounds it's yeah it

[31:01]

flew under the radar it's a great great screenplay by by Karen Walton there's two screenplays

[31:08]

available for it online there's a 96 draft and the 98 draft the 96 draft it's like pretty good

[31:15]

but the 98 draft I love because it's such a lesson on like killing your darlings and how

[31:19]

simpler can be better yeah and it's this story basically and it's crazy that it hadn't been done

[31:25]

like meaningfully before ginger snaps but it uses like you know like like can't like canthropy I

[31:31]

always get that wrong like canthropy I don't know how you say it but it's where will say it

[31:36]

it takes away wolves and uses them as a allegory or metaphor for adolescents you know coming of age

[31:45]

getting your first period and just like female range in general marches so interesting now

[31:53]

truth be told the film doesn't hold up super well there's some ropy effects in there I think the

[31:58]

performances are actually kind of weird to be honest I like there I read this before I saw it

[32:04]

incredible screenplay the film is like pretty good but I think it could have been done better

[32:10]

but just like how has no one ever been like oh gee once a month when there's a full moon oh gee once

[32:15]

a month like you know I in my period like how did that take like until the year of oralor 2000

[32:20]

for someone to be like I should write a film about that like it seems kind of crazy to me

[32:25]

yeah but to the best of my knowledge it's the first female screenwriter on this list as well

[32:32]

and I think yeah definitely worth celebrating that like into the 2000s car opened up in like a lot

[32:38]

more directions kind of with the digital age and it kind of became way more accessible for

[32:42]

people to just make their films you know like as well as the screenplays there's just be like yeah

[32:46]

how shoot that so I think they have very like interesting time yeah for filmmakers of you know

[32:53]

all creeds no for sure yeah early so early 2000s is kind of like a tricky one because like

[33:01]

there's a lot of films like I adore that came from that like Sean of the dead Jennifer's body

[33:07]

like and well Jennifer the lot of things like 2000s but like with me and my fiance are like

[33:13]

trying to figure out which film to watch and we see there's a horror film in the 2000s we're like

[33:19]

oh 2007 like we know it's gonna be fucked up and it's gonna be like I for glory for no reason

[33:28]

and like so like we I'm gonna go with like the original saw because like

[33:34]

it encapsulates this period and like it was so

[33:39]

influential they like basically made seven of those things within the 2000s because

[33:46]

the first one though like actually a good screenplay a good mystery a good like

[33:52]

locked room kind of like thing but like also like still feel like we're like making

[33:59]

these kind of saws films because of like how influential that was

[34:05]

like I feel like I'm also like I don't know exactly when it came out but the six senses somewhere

[34:10]

in here like with like we all want to twist like I feel like it's so nice it's not easy to sit

[34:17]

it I don't know I think it's 90s yeah yeah no you're right but it's funny I mean so

[34:26]

kind of you know the ring I'm thinking like early 2000s you know the ring the American remake

[34:32]

I think the first paranormal activity snooking late 2000s yeah and then all the final destinations

[34:39]

I don't know actually maybe they're late 90s I couldn't tell you for sure but yeah there's

[34:43]

so much of them which are kind of just like wonton violence and it kind of like doesn't really

[34:48]

mean that much it's kind of just an experience but look I think I'll give you 2000s because I think

[34:56]

yours epitomizes kind of the the landscape better than mine does and also of everything on this

[35:03]

film ginger snaps is the worst poster like it's not a good poster where the so long is like

[35:10]

pretty memorable I think it is definitely definitely trends around it yeah it kind of sucks it

[35:17]

looks like it made for TV movie or like something just we can direct it's a watch ginger snaps

[35:24]

I'm actually excited to see yeah it's good I'll send you the script if you're interested for sure

[35:29]

yeah please okay all right now this is maybe the toughest I mean yeah I know

[35:36]

you're really but like 2010s is kind of like peak I'm a teenager I'm watching everything that

[35:42]

comes out so I've seen so many horror movies yeah I say I'm a teenager by 2019 I wasn't I'm getting

[35:50]

old fast but yeah I mean look I watched the most horror movies during this decade by a long shot

[35:58]

and kind of my friends were also at an age where they didn't have a lot to do and had you know

[36:04]

disposable income just to go and watch stuff so I've dissected these movies way more than any

[36:10]

other decade by by some way so again I've got two here that I could pick I want to hear yours first

[36:18]

and that might might help me decide no there's like so 2010s I think is like where we've kind of

[36:25]

entered this like new golden age of horror like there's so many films that probably should get

[36:30]

it like get out obviously one of the most influential like incredible street plays or hereditary

[36:37]

for me like I'm going with it follows because like no film is fucked me up more than it's

[36:44]

fallen I like remember specifically like I was like in I think my 20s when I saw it and I still

[36:53]

had nightmares for like two weeks I was like in the movies and like we were going to see some comic

[37:00]

book film and it did like sold out and then we're like all right we'll just go see all those and

[37:06]

like I was like rubro in the movie theater like holy s*** it's such like a simple premise if you

[37:14]

haven't seen it like it sounds dumb but it's about a sexually transmitted ghost seeing it and it's

[37:21]

on my list as well so I think we're gonna agree on the 20s 10s but yeah please for anyone that

[37:25]

hasn't seen it yeah please tell them a little bit more about it yeah so it's like the premise like

[37:30]

it sounds ridiculous but it's basically like about a sexually transmitted ghost so like you have sex

[37:35]

with someone and like whoever you sleep with they're next like wherever you are it is following you

[37:45]

and it can look like anyone it usually looks like someone who's just been like sexually assaulted

[37:51]

and no matter where you go in the world it's just walking towards you in a straight line and it's

[37:56]

not fast like it's not particularly like smart it's not dumb but like it's just walking towards you

[38:05]

no matter what you do like no matter where you go it's just slowly coming for you and like

[38:12]

what makes the film so great is like it's one of few horror films where like you're never safe

[38:19]

we're like like they'll just like frame a shot and there'll be somebody walk in like 40 yards

[38:25]

away in the background but like as an audience you're just on the edge of your seat because it's like

[38:29]

it could be it that could be like it come in and like there's still like

[38:35]

that shot in the bedroom for the giant like it just kind of leans in that like

[38:41]

I think like seven foot close right he's yeah yeah and he just kind of like

[38:47]

slowly leans and like the other part is like if you're at you're the only one that can see it

[38:51]

so your friends can't really help you but people back up the chain can still see it as well

[38:57]

sorry sorry yeah yeah and it's it's kind of like it's an interesting film because like

[39:03]

it never really like expresses like

[39:08]

going to like or like kind of like it's it's not like anti-sex at all it's because like the only

[39:14]

way to get rid of it is to kind of leap around and like it's just kind of like this is fucked up

[39:21]

it's like watching these kids yeah it's a very very clever inversion of the hard trope where like

[39:27]

usually the you know the promiscuous girl is the first to be killed and you can do anything

[39:32]

that weighs craven yeah and you know then usually they kind of like virginial sort of

[39:37]

here is the one who you know it becomes the final girl at the end in some shape or form so

[39:43]

yeah it's not like anti-sex at all um very very interesting choice and yeah I agree I too

[39:51]

on here for this when he tends I think it follows is my favorite film but not my favorite screenplay

[39:57]

I just did an analysis for Keano line on it follows and I could only give it a 3.5 out of 5

[40:04]

as a screenplay um but I give it a 5 out of 5 as a film and I think that the suspense that David

[40:11]

Robert Mitchell wrote and directed manages to take from the page onto the screen is like incredible

[40:17]

he punched it up so by so much um and what a soundtrack as well whenever I'm writing anything

[40:24]

that's even a little bit spookier suspenseful I blare that soundtrack in my ears and it

[40:30]

cal gets me to lock in like so hard um and yeah such great performances something else I love about

[40:36]

I love about it as well is kind of this this like feeling of like being kind of left behind and

[40:41]

forgotten there's like this you know this this this vibe of like it's an Indian summer it says in

[40:47]

the screenplay like all of the protagonists friends have like gone away to college it's said in

[40:52]

like Detroit but yeah like what time period is really unclear like you know all the TVs are like

[40:58]

showing like black and white cartoons but then one of the girls is like a futuristic phone and the

[41:03]

cars are kind of AT-G. The shell phone yeah yeah yeah it's weird um and it has that kind of like

[41:10]

John Carpenter sort of vibe of like you know like an AT's Carpenter movie like even right down to

[41:16]

the kind of the ending of the like you know I thought things were fixed but are they um yeah and

[41:22]

you know the kind of the the kitschy sort of soundtrack yeah it's a it's a fantastic fantastic film

[41:28]

I've seen it maybe five or six times I rewatched it with my wife um who hates horror movies but

[41:34]

sometimes what I have to do is I have to get her to read the Wikipedia plot so she familiarizes

[41:38]

herself with it and then I can be like okay this is a scary part coming up and she can watch like

[41:42]

this but yeah she had a really good time despite not liking the genre so that's usually like a

[41:48]

pretty good marker of like if it's a truly good film because she loves the thing she loves um

[41:52]

the shining uh you know so yeah now while we're on the 2010s I gotta give two quick

[41:58]

shout-outs yeah want to mid-summer which I know you mentioned her editori I would argue now I

[42:04]

you know when I've clients kind of and they come to me about like you know I want to punch the

[42:08]

script up or you know concerns about it everyone always references mid-summer as a film and I think

[42:13]

that it's gotta be up there with probably the most influential horror movie off the 2010s because

[42:18]

it's all I ever hear about is people love that film or and that screenplay and um it's not my

[42:25]

favorite but it's near the top and I gotta say like it's such an economical screenplay as well and

[42:30]

like I don't really care for as much through where Ariaster has gone career wise post her editori

[42:38]

in mid-summer but um I mean he knows how to write some weird sad people um and yeah definitely

[42:46]

felt like like an evolution for uh for horror right yeah mid-summer I was like because like

[42:52]

when it first came well like kind of like you have like I had the expectations of

[42:58]

threat of terror which I think is like kind of a pretty modern masterpiece and like mid-summer

[43:03]

like grows on you we're like the first time you watch it you're like I thought like okay like

[43:09]

it's not like that and then like the more and more you like see it the more like

[43:14]

terrifying you know cultures different like kind of like it's just like a very well done

[43:21]

like he does characters very well hey like most of the motives it's just the fact and this is

[43:27]

something that's kind of more apparent on the screen than it is on the page but it's all just in

[43:31]

daylight it's like a perpetual daytime and uh you know even something like we were saying that there's

[43:36]

not many snowy horror movies like the thing but even then it's like it's nighttime sometime yeah

[43:42]

that's like and that's typically where the scary stuff happens um yeah so the fact that it's

[43:47]

daytime the whole time but it still leaves you with such a feeling of dread is like really

[43:51]

just a cool yeah yeah yeah you know so that's coming in a second for me as I get influential

[43:58]

films like screenplay but uh that's uh well I mean look so yeah I think we're

[44:04]

in agreement on it follows taking the top spot for the 2010s yeah there's cabin in the woods too

[44:10]

I forgot yeah right great great period for horror um all right so then we've got the 2020s so we've

[44:21]

only got five years to go on here yeah um and I feel like it's really tough to think about

[44:29]

how like influential something will be when it's like five years old or less right um they had a

[44:34]

really great conversation on the podcast last week about one bath left or another and is it the

[44:39]

best movie of the 21st century which is crazy to me because I just I mean I loved it but I haven't

[44:44]

made my mind up yet you know I mean like I think it takes years to kind of see how the dust settles but

[44:50]

so I'm gonna go for quite a controversial pick I think uh and I'm gonna go for we're all going

[44:55]

to the world's fair which is a 2022 movie written by Jane Sean Brum I don't know if that's how you

[45:01]

pronounce it did she also do I saw the TV glow yes okay the first yeah yeah uh I do like the

[45:09]

so I saw the TV glow but um I don't know if I'd consider it harder really yeah I'm not sure but

[45:16]

yeah we're all going to the world's fair is yeah it's controversial because like critically it's got

[45:20]

like a 91% on around tomatoes and then the the fan meet her a popcorn or whatever it's called is like

[45:26]

28% so okay it's like one of the biggest disparities in um kind of you know how it was received I

[45:34]

think that you're gonna get but I really loved it because it's very contained in kind of like a

[45:39]

skin of a rink sort of way I don't know if you saw that one as well but it's kind of all okay yeah um

[45:44]

but it's very like creepy pasta adjacent um and again as someone who grew up kind of

[45:50]

like looking up like what's the scariest thing I can read today and whatever on the internet like

[45:54]

it really spoke to me like as kind of just how like you know how how much can I like scratch this

[46:00]

like scabby itch until like I've like how I went too far you know and I do that like on a very

[46:06]

like frequent basis growing up so for that reason yeah it really spoke to me now the script is not

[46:12]

available online for this one I'd love to read it I've read I saw the TV glow so if anyone has any

[46:18]

kind of way to legally or otherwise get me that screenplay I would be very grateful um but yeah that's

[46:24]

gonna be my 2020s pick great I actually it's been on my list for a while at Tracey and I saw the TV

[46:31]

glow because everyone um yeah I gotta I could uh isn't like scary I wouldn't say it's like

[46:41]

scary scary it's it's more of a midsummer kind of like unnerving sort of um

[46:46]

bad scary but uh it's I mean it's yeah scarier than my solo TV glow certainly okay cool

[46:53]

it like this is this is the hard one because we've talked about like I like barbarian a lot kind

[46:59]

of for some of the swings it takes with like structure but me like I think talk to me is like the best

[47:07]

dome scene of like the tooth out like it's so simple because like there's horror but there's

[47:15]

also like the horror of watching teenagers make bad decisions and like you're just like there's

[47:23]

so much suspense because you're just sitting there watching these scenes and you're just like

[47:28]

please just go home just like yeah I'm not doing what you're doing like please like just go

[47:34]

home to your parents and they just won't do it but then also like I won't either when I was a

[47:40]

teenager because you're you're an idiot and like you're just like I get each other on and like

[47:47]

I mean like just briefly like the plot is like there's it's in Australia there's this hand

[47:53]

and like if you hold this hand you can speak to the dead and like if you say like I let you in

[48:01]

you get briefly possessed by the dead you can only hold the hand for like I think 50 seconds before

[48:07]

they can stay permanently and like it's also like I guess when you do it it's like a little bit of a

[48:13]

high but like these kids just keep pushing the envelope and pushing the rules again and again and again

[48:20]

and shit happens and like it's such a like

[48:23]

simple like idea done so well I just think it's like such a great so

[48:32]

that is third on my kind of list for the 2020s I agree I think it's fantastic script is very

[48:38]

contained all of the practical effects that they use in this and again as a the thing fan you

[48:44]

appreciate some practical effects but all of the practical effects are like really really good like

[48:50]

really unnerving in a way that I'm like if this was doomed digitally I don't think I would feel

[48:54]

as I don't think I'd feel this in my gut the same way yeah and yeah we don't really contain it's

[49:00]

like a classic like teenagers and instead of like a a lake house it's like you know they're just

[49:07]

like what is it like it's a classroom or like a it's just like the Australian sub so they're just

[49:12]

like being teenagers like hanging out in everyone's parents basement like what their parents aren't

[49:18]

home and like kind of yeah yeah so that's really interesting that for both of us then the 2020s has been

[49:28]

kind of like a meditation like bad decisions as teenagers that we made and again I'm kind of

[49:33]

saying like yeah I was stupid as a kid and I'm saying like I'd look at stuff I didn't want to see

[49:37]

just to make me feel something so that's really interesting that it's a direction that it seems

[49:41]

to be going or at least someone's at a resonating with those is kind of like a nostalgia for like a

[49:46]

time where there's maybe less you know consequences for making bad decisions than where we are now so

[49:54]

that's really very very interesting I don't know who wins the 2020s I'll give it to you I think

[50:02]

yeah I gotta watch it was third on my list of mine mine's only got 28% on run to motto so I think

[50:07]

that for the sake of anyone getting mad at me in the comments look might not be York of a tea but

[50:13]

I love that one and there we have it I guess so I mean look that's a that's a history of horror so

[50:21]

I've just written an article which which all of the screenplays that I've mentioned today are

[50:25]

going to be available to download on that article so anyone reading it we're watching at home or

[50:29]

listening at home check out the link in the description for my history of horror there's 13 downloadable

[50:35]

screenplays yeah everything I mentioned minus world going to the world's fair plus a few extra like

[50:40]

I've got the fly in there as well as one I didn't mention yeah the wicker man which you know I

[50:46]

can't give a shout out too so some great screenplays I think you know I'm a big believer that the best

[50:51]

way to get better as a writer is to read a lot and yeah there's 13 kind of 1943 right up to

[50:57]

weapons 2025 is on there so you can read the entire history of kind of horror in the in the movie

[51:03]

theater and oh yeah what a there's no better way I think them to to get better so

[51:08]

um what is this has been terrific fun thank you so much for agreeing to come on or I'd like to

[51:14]

uh wish you the best of look with your writing career guys anyone out there looking for a horror

[51:21]

movie to make or invest in go by Woody's screenplay because my god I need to see it made it's called

[51:27]

live laugh love um and just while setting up I don't know if you guys say this I picked up a pencil

[51:32]

because I like to have something to wave around and it says live laugh love on it I don't know if

[51:35]

you can see that great not scared me genuinely after having read your screenplay so I mean that's

[51:41]

a testament to kind of how it stays with you so um yeah thank you so much for coming on any

[51:46]

any parting uh no gets of wisdom for us no no thank you for having this has been so much fun and like

[51:53]

yeah I got a ton of films I need to catch up on now yeah absolutely likewise I think that there's

[51:59]

some uh some I gotta revisit on there at least if if if I not see them for the first time so um

[52:05]

yeah well hopefully we can have you back on next Halloween or sometimes sooner if there's

[52:09]

if there's anything else going on in the horror sphere before then but um best of luck to you and

[52:15]

everyone at home thanks for watching and I shall see you soon

The Art of Fear: Woody Bess on the Evolution of Horror | Kinolime Podcast Ep 23

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