Show Notes

Luke Reilly was one of the Top 3 finalists in Kinolime's 2026 Script to Screen Feature Competition with his screenplay, Prisoners of Air. Now, he sits down with John Schramm to unpack how he developed the screenplay, his approach to research, and the writing process that helped his script stand out among thousands of submissions.
Logline: It’s 1850. Two explorers form an unlikely friendship as they search the Arctic for a missing expedition. But can their new bond survive the discovery of its terrible fate?
In this episode, Luke takes us behind the scenes of Prisoners of Air from discovering the real-life story that inspired the screenplay to finding the relationship between his two central characters. He explains how he balances historical research with creative storytelling, why too much research can become a form of procrastination, and how he wrote the screenplay while working a full-time job.
Together, they discuss Luke's approach to outlining and discovery writing, how he handles feedback and notes, when to trust your instincts as a writer, and why he believes screenwriters shouldn't treat storytelling like a formula. Luke also shares the screenwriting advice he disagrees with, the advice that made him a better writer, and the simple habit he credits with helping him generate ideas.
Whether you're writing your first screenplay, struggling to balance writing with a full-time job, trying to figure out how much research is enough, or wondering what makes a script stand out in a competition, this conversation offers an inside look at the process behind a Top 3 screenplay and plenty of practical advice you can apply to your own writing.

Full Transcript

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There's a trend in screenwriting which sees it as overly formulaic and you're almost
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writing like a mathematical formula you get your Insighting Instant on page 50.
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Welcome everyone to the KinoLine podcast.
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I am John Schrem.
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With me today we have our finalist from the script-to-screen KinoLine competition.
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Luke Riley, Luke coming in from the UK.
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What's up dude?
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How are you?
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Doing good, yeah.
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Grace beyond, Grace beyond, thanks for having me.
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Thanks for chatting.
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We're going to get into all the nitty gritty of your writing process.
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How you came up with the idea of Prisoners of Air, which is one of my favorite screenplays.
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And all things career story.
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What we're aiming for is to educate our audience.
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You're a seasoned writer.
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You can tell by the words on the page that this is not your first rodeo.
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So if you can impart some wisdom to our eager KinoLineers, we'd greatly appreciate.
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First of all, I want to know, how did you come up with the idea of Prisoners of Air?
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I wish I could say there was a big inspirational, you know, it came to me in a dream or something.
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I watched AMCs with TV series The Terror, which was about the Frank L.Ex. position.
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I watched it on the sofa resting after coming back from shooting a short film in COVID.
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And I just, I fell in love with it.
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And I started researching the Franklin Expedition and found that there was a whole story
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about after the expedition got lost about the search for it.
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And a character called John Ray emerged who was the man who actually found the fate of the Franklin Expedition.
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But he was ignored.
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His discovery was ignored by the British establishment because he basically believed in you at testimony.
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And in your testimony, if I revealed that the Franklin men were reduced to cannibalism.
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And for trusting in that testimony, for daring to believe people who were considered in theory at a time.
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And for daring to believe that Englishmen could stoop to so it could sabotage.
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He was basically shunned from the establishment and forgotten by history.
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So I thought there was a, yeah, just a really interesting story in there.
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I've basically tried to resurrect what I think was a very heroic man.
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And also a potentially very interesting story and a very interesting way of understanding
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of relating to the past.
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Because this is a man whose ideas are quite far ahead of his time and quite relatable to a modern audience.
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So yeah, I thought there was a thread there and I kept pulling it.
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So you had the thread of the expedition and the sort of question right of like what happened to it.
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Then obviously the conclusion.
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And John Ray, when did you bring in the other character?
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The remind me of his name?
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Good sir.
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Good sir, that's right. Good sir.
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When did you bring in good sir?
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Did you try it first initially to have a film rest on John Ray's shoulders?
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Or tell us how you got to that conclusion with those two?
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I think when the film first dawned on me and when it fell into my head and felt like it had something.
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It was when I found the two and it was when I realized it was a combination.
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It was a two-hander, almost a romance story of the romance of friendship and a film about contrasts.
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And a bit of a body movie.
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It was when I discovered the, yeah, I discovered this alternative story of Good sir,
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who was a real life figure as well, who went on an expedition to actually look for his brother
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because his brother was on the Franken expedition.
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I think that level of, yeah, that kind of human relatability, the fact he was motivated by grief,
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whereas John Ray was motivated by, I think by a humanitarian wish to find his fellow men,
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but also by professional accomplishment and by a desire to conquer the world.
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And I thought that was a really interesting contrast.
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And also, I basically, I guess, yeah, that's where I realized that you could bring the contrast in
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because John Ray, to our sensibility appears very modern very far ahead of his time.
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And I thought an interesting contrast would be to make Good sir very obvious time
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and very unrelatable to our time now and to kind of set up that debate between the past and
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the present and how we view the past between those two characters.
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So, yeah, it dawned on me when I discovered Good sir in the research.
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And I think the film came to life when I realized it would be about their relationship.
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So that was my next question, which you answered.
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Thank you. When did you realize that the screenplay was working?
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So you just to summarize that was when you discovered that relationship between the two.
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You knew you had a powder cake there.
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Yeah, yeah, I felt I was onto something here.
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It felt like it had an archetypal structure.
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I mentioned like the body movie, odd couple that structure of two people from two different backgrounds.
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Who eventually come to see each other's point of view and eventually become, yeah,
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a fall in love, a love of friendship, not a romantic love.
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Yeah, I also like how you can use these characters to basically almost kind of make it a bit of
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a thought experiment and you can through the dialogue, you can play out ideas, debates,
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you can have these for through the contrast.
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And I think yeah, I think a lot of stuff I write at two hand is that they're basically
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dual logs. I've written a few novels which I'm still trying to publish, but I've also had a
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screenplay produced before and they've all been fixated primarily, you know, 80% 90% around two
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main characters. And I think it's just a really interesting way of telling stories because I think
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the one and one relationship is one of the most precious relationships of our life.
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If it's your best friend, your wife, your husband, your mother, your father, your sibling, it's
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yeah, I think it's, I'm just really interested in in in dual logs and a lot of stuff.
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Well, let's start with Adam and Eve, right? Yeah, two people, isn't just one, right? Like
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God, that's it. Yeah, that's it. I've gotten into the traps of like going into the rabbit holes
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of research and going and going and going and I don't know is it Aaron Sorkin? Someone was saying
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that you can get trapped in doing too much research. How did you, what for the writers out there
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that are doing something historical? Like what's something you picked up so you, unless you did
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go down a rabbit hole and how'd you get yourself out of it? Yeah, that's a good question. I think on this,
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I limited myself. I think I was aware of when I started researching certain books to read that
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I could just go on reading forever. I mean, there's a point when you do two months research, you
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you're kind of, you're doing academia more than you're doing creativity, you know? And I had
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a novel project I wrote about two years before, again, not being published, which I just read
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the way too much and I want one to actually sat down and write it. I was like, oh, this was all,
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you know, half an ass was kind of useless because I can't, I can't use any of those all interesting
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stuff. So yeah, I set my, I kind of, I think I just set myself a target of like 10, 10 books,
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10 weeks ago. That's all that's a lot. No, I mean, it's, it's, I laugh because, you know, that's,
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yeah, but that's great. I think setting yourself a target to limit yourself when you're doing research
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is really important. Also, I feel like it's a form of procrastination. It's a subconscious form.
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It's easy to read and say, oh, I got to learn more about the history and the, the era, but like,
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at the end of the day, you got to get your ass in a chair and you got to get writing.
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You got to do it. Yeah, for sure. But I do think procrastination can be, can be really productive.
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So it's often in those, it's in those moments where your mind wanders where something really
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interesting comes out or often wonder if it's maybe slightly different, but when I'm sitting at my
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desk writing and I pop off to the toilet that the idea will always be my head. I always, I'm a,
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that will be the moment where I write the same click, you know. I take lots of walks. That's what I do.
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I walk and listen and they always come with a shower is where I get ideas. But how did you balance
[08:47]
the history and the, you know, you have to serve in a way two masters, right? The history and the
[08:52]
accuracy, but also the story. How did you balance that out or did, when did, when did history,
[08:59]
historical facts sort of lose to the battle of story? I think the first dialogue I wrote was there's
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a, there's a long speech by John Ray where he's releasing a story that, that story pretty much happened.
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Word for word. That was from the, the, the Richard Richardson, Frank, Frank Lenex position in
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about the 1810s. But also that, that's the true terror and darkness of that story informed
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the, the, the tone of, sorry, of the historical story, informed the tone of the fictional story.
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If you think of, if you see what I mean, basically, the end of the story able is, is, has fallen
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found to the same condition, the same lack of humanity, that, the man in that, that historical
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story has as well. But I also just had a bit of a, yeah, I, I, I, I, I am also, I, I'm doing a
[10:04]
master's currently. So I, I kind of have one head in an academic camp and one in the creative
[10:09]
camp. And I guess I, I wanted to keep him quite, quite separate. And I did have a mentality of
[10:14]
kind of, you know, screw, screw the history a bit like the, the John Ray of my film is very much
[10:20]
not what he was like. He was, he was very devout, Christian, quite, quite proud of his nation and
[10:27]
his country. He, he didn't, I, I, the spoiler alert. What happens to him at the end of the film,
[10:33]
doesn't happen to him. Yeah. He went back to the UK and lived happily ever after and had a,
[10:37]
why? And had a nice time and, and in the opening islands. Um, he was a doctor, he was a spuyola
[10:46]
counts. Oh, yeah, he was a TV, he was a T total. He would, he would never drink. So what made you,
[10:53]
I basically just tore all these things apart and said, you know what? Why was it to go, was it
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to bounce off good, sir, because he was the, the man on the expedition and representing sort of the
[11:03]
crown and the, well, like what was, like, why did you make that switch to a more savage, at least in,
[11:10]
in a myth of the John Ray that we see on the page? I think maybe so. I think angry. I,
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I think it's happening. I wouldn't say no. I don't, I was being facetious and meaning like,
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he was viewed as a savage, right? By good, sir. And the other reason, no, no, no, he was more of a
[11:27]
survivalist, right? Like he do the ladle and, but how did you come up with that contrast?
[11:33]
Or like, tell me how that came about? Yeah, I think it was definitely to create more of a contrast
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and, and more sparks with, with good, sir. I, I guess I was writing the ray as the precious,
[11:46]
the purchase establishment, see him, I was writing the kind of, the, the, the, the, the, the,
[11:51]
the Dominic stereotype in the head of this, this, and who had gone native. And I, I think I was
[11:56]
also writing a ray who was in an alternative universe where he, he had become much more bitter,
[12:03]
much more angry. He had maybe, maybe turn to drinking. And he, he was almost playing up to the
[12:10]
stereotype that the British established, or saw him out. So he was almost kind of, sure.
[12:15]
Kind of mocking him in a way of being like, well, you, you, you think I'm a drunk idiot? I'm,
[12:19]
I'm going to be a drunk idiot then. Sure. And I'm, I'm going to shock you. So that was kind of,
[12:24]
how I justified it, you know, every, I think historical fiction, historical films are always like an
[12:29]
alternative reality. Yeah. So I was basically indulging that alternative.
[12:35]
Well, I do indulge. So I want to know because you're a produced screenwriter, you know, this is not
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something you haven't been in that seat before where, you know, you, you know, what it's like to
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have your movie made or at least the words you've written produced. What is your, your writing process
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what does Luke Riley do when he's going to go right? Do you write the morning, afternoon?
[13:02]
What's your, tell us your process? You know, I mean, that's, that's a difficult question. It's
[13:07]
kind of been different with each different project. I mean, I wrote prisoners around,
[13:13]
for the, for the, well, pretty much first time in my life, I, I had a full-time 95 job. But before,
[13:18]
before now, I was freelance and I was, I was writing, I was, I was doing sound work, I was doing
[13:23]
various odd jobs and writing around then. But prisoners was, was written when I had a set structure and
[13:31]
after work every day, I would go to a cafe or a pub in the UK, the three-channel round. Yeah,
[13:38]
I understand. Yeah, exactly. Getting out. Not, not, not always drinking. Usually, usually a,
[13:45]
usually a diet coke. So sometimes something to get the juices flowing. But I, I would write for
[13:50]
about two hours after work, probably for a good 70% of the year. And when I was approaching,
[13:58]
feeling like I was getting closer, I'd, I'd start working on, I'd work on the weekends. And
[14:02]
that would be like 10 to 10 to 4 or 6. So I think it's great because for the, the writers out there
[14:08]
at home, you know, might have jobs and they want to know, how can I do this? You know, they,
[14:13]
they, they read of Stephen King writing all day, you know, they're like, how could, how could they
[14:17]
do this? But, you know, there are writers that have to make it work within their careers that
[14:23]
they're in. So you clearly wrote after work for two hours. Were you an outliner? Did you have an
[14:27]
outliner ready? How did you know what you were going to do that day? I, I'd open the laptop and,
[14:33]
and see where I got to yesterday. I, I, I usually, um, I guess I usually write about as maybe a
[14:40]
scene or half a scene a day. But no outline. You didn't, you, you, you, you went into,
[14:47]
I'm not, I'm not, I'm not that prescriptive. I, I, I, I, I knew where the story was going and I,
[14:55]
I kind of had it in my head. I'd kind of written down all these rough,
[14:59]
what it calls splurges and notes on, on word documents. I knew where it was going and I,
[15:03]
I only start writing when I know what the ending is. Sure. But I, I kind of work out how to get there.
[15:09]
I, I, I don't like to write down every scene and then. Yeah, yeah. You want, you want to explore?
[15:14]
I'm filling out that scene. I'm kind of in the same way that I, I'm creating dialogue quite,
[15:20]
quite, um, in quite a malleable way. I, I think I'm also creating the structure in quite a
[15:24]
malleable way. I don't, I don't see why structure should also, it should be done differently. It
[15:30]
should be done as a kind of a list, you know, as bullet points. Um, I, I kind of think structure
[15:37]
should also come about through inspiration and, you know, maybe do it. It's just in the same way,
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what, you know, you're, you're, you're at your desk, you're, you're maybe like, I'm not really
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doing much. You get up, goes to the toilet and a line of dialogue falls in your head. I, I also
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think there's no reason why, you know, a beautiful piece of structure could fall in your head or
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like, well, that's an interesting way of doing it, you know, maybe they, uh, yeah. Um,
[16:02]
so no, I'm not, I'm not, I didn't, yeah, I didn't have an outline, but that, that's, sorry,
[16:07]
that's the long way. No, no, no, I'm not. I'm not. I'm not, but now I, I, I, I make up the outline
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as I go along. I know where I'm going, but I'll, I'll be chopping and changing quite a lot.
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And I, I'm often all, when I finish today's work, I'll basically write a very rough sketch of
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what's going to happen in the next bit. And then pretty much half of my work for next day will be
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looking at it and going out. It doesn't really work. I want to do something else.
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And then I'll work out something else and then the, the, the cycle repeats.
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So now you have your first draft. What, what was your process like once you had the draft? Did you
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have friends read it, give you notes, then tackle the rewrite? How did it, how'd you go from there?
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Um, yeah, I, I sent it to friends in the industry. I, I, I paid a few people to read it as well.
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Um, again, I, I, I, another advantage of not being a freelancer and having a, a, a kind of
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stable job, stable income, as well. I felt I could just, just be a bit more structural with that.
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Um, send it to a good, I'd say maybe seven or eight people. Okay.
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And then kind of collated there, their, their responses and saw what, what lined up and
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check common streams were. And I also, I think it's important to find places where,
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where you, where you bulk a bit, where, where you go. Oh, I don't, I don't like what they said there.
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I remember I, I had someone who said, um, again, spoiler, spoiler alert,
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John Ray is a very important character to, to die off screen.
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Mm-hmm. And I remember immediately when I, I want him to die off screen.
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He has to, because that, that is the whole point. Yeah. And that's what, that's what grief and
[17:53]
losing your friends feel like it's, you don't see them. Yeah. Yeah. There's wonderful, large,
[17:58]
large, large, and life person suddenly gone. Um, and it's the first, it is like the kind of
[18:04]
frustration of that. You, you, you, you, you wander back, but they can't come back. So, yeah, I,
[18:09]
I think, yeah, I, I, I mean, that's maybe a general note for, for writers out there,
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responding to feedback. It's like, yeah, don't, don't feel the need, need to, to do everything,
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to, to kind of people please. Like, that also, also don't be too belligerent. You have to kind of
[18:25]
find a balance, but sometimes when you have a reaction, reaction to a note, sure. That's, that's,
[18:31]
that's not you being arrogant. That's you actually thinking, no, I need to stick to my guns.
[18:37]
Yeah, stick your guns. Yeah. Well, I think there's, there's, there's, I'm curious that, was there an area
[18:43]
even now in, in retrospect that you maybe wish you would have got like, an area you wanted to
[18:51]
push into or maybe were afraid to that now looking back, maybe you should have. Does that make sense?
[18:56]
Like, we, we all are precious about certain things, but maybe there was there an area of the story
[19:03]
that you're like, man, I probably should have went harder here. Or, um, I was afraid to go there,
[19:08]
and I should have. Does that make sense? Yeah, I see what you're saying. I, no, I, I don't think I do
[19:13]
have regrets of that kind. And in terms of the intensity, I, um, it's, it's one, you know,
[19:19]
it's one very grateful for, for you guys for, for, for, for believing in that as well, because
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I, I, I didn't hold back in, there's some pretty brutal stuff in here. No, yeah.
[19:30]
Um, I, I'm really pleased that you, you kind of still wanted to go over it, because it can be a risk.
[19:37]
I think, I think there's regrets of little, of scenes I've lost and, um, but yeah, it's, it's,
[19:46]
it's not about, it's not so much about the intensity or, or this feeling of having gone far enough.
[19:52]
I don't even need far enough in terms of intensity. Like, I should have gone deeper in their
[19:56]
relationship. I should have, um, explored another area. I don't mean intensity of, you know, um,
[20:04]
the return. Yeah, just like was there an area you were afraid of to explore?
[20:10]
Uh, I, I, I, I mean, there's, um, something I would have lots to explore more is the,
[20:13]
the in your perspective. Yeah. I mean, the, the, the, the, the, the big inspiration for me,
[20:18]
when I first did my research was like, from, from the, from the in your perspective, the,
[20:23]
these strange encounters they had with the last Franklin men were just straight out
[20:28]
ghost stories like horror films. Wow. I mean, those just all these like horrifying,
[20:32]
really spine chilling tales of, of, of, of an in your family who, who built an igloo, settled down
[20:39]
for the night, then the child sits up and goes, on me, there's, there's a strange man outside.
[20:43]
Well, gosh. And they step out, they step outside. And, and for a lot of them, it's the first time
[20:47]
seeing a white man. Yeah. And it's also a white man who knows, is black because of frostbite.
[20:53]
Oh, god. He's completely just his mind. He's like sleeping in a seal car. Because, and, and, and,
[20:58]
yeah, I think that's maybe the, like that, that a lot of that definitely went into able,
[21:02]
and able was that, you know, the man who lost his mind. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I wouldn't say
[21:09]
it's a regret, but I, it's probably possibly not my story to tell. And I also think it's,
[21:14]
it's a different film, but I do think as a whole really rich mind of, you know, that, yeah,
[21:20]
did this film told from the in your perspective, or, or the Franklin expedition told from the
[21:24]
in your perspective, if you could film one scene tomorrow, that would convince the world to watch
[21:29]
prisoners of air. What scene would that be? Yeah. I choose to. One. That's not, that's not allowed.
[21:40]
I think I would pick the scene where they're reading out the, the roster of ship's names to
[21:46]
able. So then they're reading the names of, of the men of the Franklin expedition to this
[21:53]
strange figure they found who can't speak. He seems to have completely gone mad. And they
[22:01]
don't even know if he's a Franklin man. And I, I think that's for all the kind of, the boss,
[22:08]
the bossity of the scripts and all the rich, all the rich language in there, which I was,
[22:13]
which I am proud of. I just love the kind of simplicity of that scene.
[22:19]
That's amazing. All right. Give me your second one. I'm curious now. What's going to be the
[22:22]
second scene? A pure, a pure, a John Ray's monologue. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And he blew out.
[22:29]
That's a great one too. I love his intro. That's, that's a great when they go to the bar or the
[22:36]
pub, whatever you call it back then when you, you're John Ray for the first time.
[22:40]
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, that just really gets, you just really get to see who he is for the first
[22:45]
time. And it's just the one, it's so cinematic. Um, what's the, is it inspired a bit by, by
[22:52]
Das Boat? Oh, yeah. Don't know if you've seen that. Of course. Of course. But yeah, just the,
[22:59]
yeah, about German, you put, sure. And the first scene is that them just getting completely drunk.
[23:04]
I know. I remember that. Yeah. Yeah. That movie. Oh, my, I never felt more claustrophobic in my life
[23:09]
than watching that film. That's a masterpiece. That's a masterpiece. Fantastic film.
[23:14]
You know, um, so speaking of things that are fantastic, let's talk about keen aligns. So, uh, how has,
[23:21]
you know, entering the keen on competition, right? Like, how is that, um, what would you take away
[23:27]
from being a participant in the keen on competition? Well, I, I, it's been a huge, it's been a
[23:34]
wonderful experience for me. I, I, I was top three. It was, it was, it was a huge beast to my
[23:40]
confidence. It was, um, it's been a real faith and, and, and the screenplay and I, I, I, I,
[23:46]
I think the model is, is really innovative. There's, there's just, I think from, from my own
[23:52]
perspective as a writer, uh, the, the level of stress testing, it goes through to, I've been
[23:58]
through two rounds of audience voting and a judging panel. Uh, and that's a real, that's a real,
[24:05]
yeah, sign of, of strength for the script. Um, and, and, yeah, as I said, a big confidence boost.
[24:11]
But I do think it's, it's a really interesting model of Indy. It's, it's kind of creating a,
[24:17]
a, a, a ready-made audience for the film, for films when they do get produced. Yeah.
[24:22]
Um, which, yeah, I kind of, uh, uh, it's, it's, it feels, feels strange when no one's done that
[24:31]
before, but, um, I, I think it's, yeah, I think it's really cool. I, I, I, I've, yeah, I, I really
[24:36]
enjoyed the process. Um, and, you know, I, I, I, it was, what a lot to have won over all, but, um,
[24:46]
as you said, I, I have experienced the process of seeing my words become a film and, um,
[24:53]
I, I, I've seen my film on an on-screen and, and, yeah, I'm just really happy to catch the winner
[24:59]
of the sheet. She, she gets to, to have that chance. Um, but that doesn't mean that prison
[25:03]
was rare, can't be. I mean, for everyone at home, we're not official yet, but, you know, we've
[25:07]
extended a contract, uh, option to, option contract to Luke and, uh, hopefully we'll get things done
[25:14]
very soon. And then that'll be another film we have in our slate here to, to get going. I,
[25:19]
I mean, I love, love love your screenplay. So I'm a, I, I have big, big plans for that. So,
[25:23]
we'll get into that. But, uh, Luke, I want to get into a little bit of a light. It will happen.
[25:28]
It's going to happen. I like it. We're going to manifest it. Um, I want to get into a little bit of
[25:32]
a rapid round here. So these are going to be quick answers. You know, don't really, the idea is
[25:36]
not to think just to really go, but instinct action. So, uh, like, like, like, it may happen for me,
[25:41]
but yeah, I know you seem like a thinker. I don't know if, I don't know what it is from that photo
[25:45]
we're looking at of you now with the image, but you might, you might be well read. All right. So,
[25:50]
first thing, top three movies go. Don't think go. Uh, a, a, a, a, a, I think that's both because I
[25:57]
mentioned that they usually say it, uh, fishy king, Terry Galeen. Oh, love that one. Oh, I haven't
[26:03]
seen that so long. I should rewatch that. Oh, great, great Jeff Bridges and, uh, Ryan's performance,
[26:07]
brilliant film. All right. Screenwriting advice you disagree with. There's a bit of, there's a trend
[26:13]
in screenwriting, but Caesar sees it as overly formulaic and, and, you know, you're, you're,
[26:18]
you're almost writing like a mathematical formula you have to get your inciting instant on page
[26:24]
15 and blah, blah, blah. And I don't, I think if you go back and look at great screenplays,
[26:29]
often they do get close to that formula, but I, I, you can't impose it. You have to, you have to
[26:36]
arrive at it. You have to discover it through the process. And yeah, basically I'd say,
[26:41]
you know, screen, screenwriting is like any other art form, any other form of creative writing,
[26:46]
and treat it like that, treat it like writing a poem and novel.
[26:50]
Um, that, yeah, uh, don't see it somehow, somehow separate from that. What's the best screenwriting
[26:57]
advice you've ever heard? Screenwriting is acting. Hmm. Can you explain?
[27:05]
So when, um, yeah, well, when, when you're, when you're writing dialogue, you're kind of,
[27:13]
you're kind of like an actor improvising and, uh, let, let yourself be freer with that. I,
[27:21]
often find it, even if I'm writing in a library or something, I'm kind of, I'm sort of whispering
[27:26]
the lines beneath my, but probably look a bit crazy. Yeah. Like whispering, whispering the line.
[27:30]
Crazy Luke is back. Yeah. I mean, there's plenty of crazy people in the public library system,
[27:36]
but I'm definitely up there. But, um, yeah, I don't, don't, um, yeah, don't, don't be afraid to act
[27:47]
when, when you're writing. So stand up and act it out as well. I let, I let people take of that,
[27:52]
what, what they will. Yeah, Aaron Sorkin talks about that. He'll walk around acting out the lines,
[27:57]
you know, for the cadence. So that's important. I like that. Okay. Movie that you'd wish you'd
[28:02]
written and you can't name the three films you spoke about. Maybe network, but, uh, yeah. Okay.
[28:09]
Just, just the really gorgeous, gorgeous scripts. Sure. I think the, the, the prestige,
[28:16]
the crystal, uh, that's interesting. That's a film most people love or hate. And I'm glad that
[28:22]
you're in the camp that you like it. I'm happy to be, I'm a, I'm a big prestige fan. I think
[28:27]
when people's, we watch it now, they don't, for some reason don't love it. I think it's fantastic.
[28:32]
I think it's, I think it's his best before, before, before, before, I would say it was his best.
[28:37]
But I'm a big, I love interstellar from a kind of, yeah, like a family member, but I, I love
[28:42]
the prestige. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. It's, um, I, I get kind of goes back to what I was saying about
[28:49]
structures. I saw an interview with Chris Nolan where he, because his, his structure is just
[28:56]
incredible. Like the way he structures scenes. Yeah. They're all little jack-in-the-boxes or
[29:01]
tricks, which surprise you and, and upset your expectations, often like two or three layers at a time.
[29:08]
And, but he basically, he says that he approaches structure in the same way, if it like a famous
[29:14]
approaches his lines, you know, he does it through feeling for, he does it for inspiration.
[29:19]
You know, he's not sitting there being formulaic. No, I know. I'm coming. It's, it's, it's, yeah, it's
[29:25]
from, it's from inspiration. So, but yeah, no, I wish I could be, could be that clever.
[29:32]
Do you think the Odyssey is going to be great or ma?
[29:36]
Uh, I, the trailers look, I have to say it looked quite bad.
[29:42]
Kind of agree. I kind of agree. He's, he surprised me before. I just think like the,
[29:47]
the aesthetic, it looks, if you compare it to, you know, like gladiator, it's just so fun.
[29:54]
No, it's so flat. I'm very, I'm very worried, very worried. Yeah. But, uh, you can't just count the
[30:00]
Nolan. No, he can't just count. He's, he's a great, he's also, yeah, for the events of my
[30:06]
university as well. So, uh, I've got a, got a lot of, you got to represent the alum. Last question,
[30:12]
what's the habit that made you a better writer? A habit that made you a better writer?
[30:17]
The habit, um, always carrying a pen. Yeah. Uh, always carrying note cards and whenever I
[30:25]
read, I make notes. I, I, I, I can't read without a pen. Same. I, I, I mark up my books.
[30:31]
Now, do you, this is not part of the lightning round. The lightning round is officially ended. No,
[30:35]
but do you free, freehand your, your, your drafts? Are you type like what's?
[30:42]
Uh, yeah, I, I, I actually, I type, I type in word because that's how I used to write my novels.
[30:47]
Um, no, interesting. Yeah, I type in word and then the process, process of, of transcribing it over
[30:54]
to a, to a, uh, a script cut out the fat. Yeah, it really helps just a, a streamline.
[31:02]
A tieker. And I know Sorken does that too. They will write a screenplay and then retype it
[31:08]
almost by memory because they're trying to cut it. Your mind will subconsciously remove the fat.
[31:14]
Sorry, I cut you off. That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a similar thing. I, I,
[31:18]
I mean, it's also, it's a bit more practical. I, I just, I can just think, yeah, same.
[31:23]
And I can go faster. But I do, I think when I'm stuck, I'll, I, I'll write my hand. I'll often,
[31:30]
I'll often be like, I'm, I'm going to take a note pad to the, you know, go on a walk, sit in the park.
[31:35]
And I, I'm right, I've seen and, and I, but we're, we're penning and, and I often find that can,
[31:43]
I, I, I don't try and overuse that. Um, but I find that can be a really good way of having, like, a
[31:48]
break through. I find that slows my mind down. I'll write by hand if I need to, like, be in a scene
[31:54]
more. I think when I type, we just go, I, I go quick. But if I write by hand, it'll really focus,
[32:00]
I write slowly and my hand and writing is terrible. So it'll force me to stay more in the scene.
[32:06]
And I find that, that's when choices, better choices emerge. So, um, interesting. Luke,
[32:12]
yeah, yeah. Riley, you're, you're amazing, dude. Thanks so much for joining the Keyline podcast.
[32:16]
I certainly know this. Enjoy it. If you got something out of today's podcast, please share it with
[32:21]
your filmmaking and screenwriting community and hit subscribe. It genuinely helps us keep making
[32:26]
these. We need them. Uh, and we'll see you in the next one.

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