Think Like a Producer: Strategy, Creativity & Real-World Lessons | Kinolime Podcast Ep 28

Show Notes

🎬 Episode Highlights & Producing Takeaways The "CEO of a Startup": Kaya debunks the "glitz and glam" misconception of producing. She breaks down how a producer must act as the CEO of a project—managing multimillion-dollar budgets, navigating creative egos, building department heads, and strategizing exit plans on incredibly tight timelines.

Creativity is the Engine: While producers are the financial and logistical backbone, Kaya emphasizes that you cannot survive the industry without a deep, genuine love for the creative process and the integrity of the story you are telling.

Knowing When to Walk Away: A crucial lesson for any filmmaker: recognizing when to pull the plug. Kaya discusses the difficult but necessary reality of walking away from a failing project before budgets double and bridges burn, redefining what "failure" actually means in production.

Producing in a War Zone: A raw look at the unprecedented challenges of budgeting and running a TV series (One Day in October) in Israel during a conflict, highlighting the immense responsibility of managing crew safety, logistics, and real-life sensitivities.

The Spielberg Payoff: The ultimate Hollywood dream realized! Kaya reflects on the emotional milestone of attending her LA premiere and having legendary director Steven Spielberg personally praise her work on the show.

Key Takeaways:

Harrowing Escape: Kaya shares her intense, movie-like experience of having to flee the country. Armed with nothing but her phone and a bag of cash, she details a grueling 10-hour wait at the Jordanian border, traveling with strangers in taxis, and watching missiles fly past her plane during takeoff.

Full Transcript

[00:00]

You can't be interested in producing if you're not interested in the creativity go into a different business venture

[00:04]

That's right. The creativity is my drive

[00:06]

You really have to understand the creativity that you're getting into and the project that you're getting into because it's super important

[00:12]

Yes, producers do get to say no, but it's super important that the integrity of the creativity is something that you actually really care about

[00:30]

Keenalimeers, welcome today. We have an amazing guest who's not just a guest, but family member here at Keenalime

[00:36]

We're doing something cool called the producers profile. We'll have producers or filmmakers come and chat about what it is to be a producer

[00:43]

Or write or a director and we wanted to start today with Kaya Amor who is the CMO of Keenalime and besides that

[00:51]

Be an amazing kick-ass producer so Kaya. Thank you. What's up girl? How are you?

[00:56]

No, this is so exciting John. I'm in your podcaster. This is our podcaster first of all of course

[01:02]

Usually on behind the camera not in front of the car because that wall design behind you you designed for sure

[01:08]

I've literally hand painted these walls she hand painted it but yeah as producers

[01:12]

We actually like to sit behind the lens not in front of the lens

[01:15]

You know that is something actually which is a good segue in because I think

[01:20]

producers do get this really weird rep that somehow like it's all about glitz and glamour which is like I mean

[01:27]

For sure, I mean which honestly I do get confused a lot with other producers where they're like what are you?

[01:33]

I'm like you can still dress nice behind the lens. Yes

[01:37]

It's just more fun. Why not?

[01:39]

If you're doing it. Yeah, it's a lot more suits. And here's the thing producers are we go into it because of the creativity as well

[01:46]

Sure, you know, you can't you can't be interested in producing if you're not interested in the creativity go into a different business venture

[01:51]

That's right honestly, but yeah

[01:53]

It's it's one of those things that people really get a misconception about producers is that it's all about the glitz and glam

[01:58]

Which the glitz and glam is all part of the strategy honestly in order to do well. It's very important

[02:04]

The end of the day from beginning till end everything that you do you need to be extremely strategic as a producer how you are

[02:11]

Navigating it look at this coming hot out of the gate

[02:13]

I love it of course, but hit me but before we get to the glitz and glamor and how everyone at home could be like this one day or try to be

[02:19]

Would love to know because I don't think I even know like how did you start out producing like give us the little like you know

[02:27]

Preface of Kaya more and how you got to where you are

[02:31]

Whoo, I'm gonna keep it short just because you know see I don't get paid enough for that kind of okay, you know time

[02:39]

And you know there needs to be like a you know on the contract

[02:44]

But I love anything to do with film related, you know, and then it was about you know

[02:49]

What do I want to be in the industry? I dabbled in writing? I even in acting or whatever it is in all different departments

[02:55]

I was always very interested to you know be in the art world and set design to set design

[03:01]

So I mean

[03:03]

Ultimately, I wanted to be a part of filmmaking that was ultimately what I wanted

[03:07]

But it was really important to kind of figure out the focus like what what will I be good at in filmmaking?

[03:13]

So I mean, I'm really happy that I tried all different kind of avenues just because they gave me a really good window

[03:19]

But the thing about producing which is again, you have to be crazy in order to be a producer

[03:23]

Be sure as it's like we'll dive more into it

[03:26]

But what I love about it so much is that it really really combines business and creativity together

[03:31]

So as much as that it can be the most successful in the industry can also be the biggest failure in the industry

[03:36]

So that was the most attractive to me because I was like I

[03:40]

Want to work with a lot of creativity not just myself, but with the team of creativity

[03:45]

But I also want to push it. I want to be able to be someone that can push it

[03:48]

So that really was what drove me into like oh my god, it producing is what I want to do

[03:52]

That's interesting because when I think of a budget sheet

[03:54]

I think above the line and you're looking at you know talent etc. I read below the line, you know producers are

[04:00]

One of the few bigger parts elements of a film or TV show that need both business and creative

[04:08]

Right like your director your writer either always creative minded, right?

[04:13]

But the producers really the the big wig that comes in and balances that I actually really listen

[04:19]

I how I see it as the producers it like the CEO of a startup. Mm-hmm. That's how I see it

[04:25]

It's it's a CEO of a startup

[04:27]

But it's the project is the beginning and end of the startup so unlike a CEO of any startup that you know

[04:33]

They have maybe a lot of years to put in and to make sure that everything is good and whatever we have a very short amount of time to make

[04:39]

Million dollar decisions that can fail in a huge amount of time

[04:42]

But we are the CEO and the comparison is that we literally have to build out the entire project

[04:47]

We have to you know build out the budget build out the department heads understand the goal understand the creative goal understand

[04:53]

With the exit plan we have to actually do it with ego's own all of it of creative

[04:58]

100% make cannons maybe you know how to do turnovers and make decisions and all of that

[05:02]

So I I really compare it to that because when people also what is the producer because they really people don't understand

[05:07]

That all the time they're like what does the producer do and I was like because there's a big differentiation between executive

[05:13]

Reduces are more part of the financial bigger picture, but a producer producers are the CEOs of the project

[05:19]

We build out the whole project

[05:20]

I'd love to pause there and say for people at home you hear executive producer or EP typically or the financial component to a film and then your producers

[05:29]

Are the ones that build out the film itself boots on the ground etc and also get the investors I mean and wrangle the money

[05:37]

Correct so the EPs are the money hopefully

[05:40]

Investors or networks or you know the ones with the bigger picture so they are the risk takers honestly

[05:46]

They jump in they have the they see the vision through and they have to succeed with that vision

[05:51]

So it's really important that they do everything

[05:55]

Really strategically so you listed a bunch of

[05:58]

Qualifications and qualities of a producer what is

[06:01]

One of your favorite aspects of producing like do you like working with the money people do you like working with the talent if you had to boil it to maybe one

[06:09]

Honestly the creativity is my drive

[06:12]

Because I think that if again if I was getting into it for the business, I would definitely pick a different industry

[06:19]

But I will separate question only into later

[06:21]

But you really have to understand the creativity that you're getting into and the project that you're getting into because it's super important

[06:28]

Yes, producers do you get to say no, but it's super important that the integrity of the creativity

[06:33]

Is something that you actually really care about because that's end of the day that is the drive and success where you have sometimes

[06:40]

producers that will cut corners on creativity where they shouldn't yeah

[06:43]

It is important to say no to certain things of course because creatives have a way of just

[06:48]

Really, you know flying with it and put really one be like no, but in your like really that's not a part of it

[06:54]

Yeah, but really what I love most about producing love is when I'm on set

[06:58]

It's my favorite thing. Okay better than anything else. I literally I'm like I will never leave this is my home

[07:03]

And by the way people like why do producers need to be on set?

[07:06]

We need to be on set because if anything goes wrong any at any point of time every single minute counts

[07:11]

Every minute counts and you are the one running the project so

[07:15]

Who's gonna put out the fires and pivot?

[07:17]

It was up to directors and writers and they'd be rolling

[07:19]

No, we would never ever

[07:21]

No, no, nothing. I think what happened everyone would be fine

[07:25]

Honestly part of like producing is that you have to understand that you're gonna fail sure

[07:30]

It's like really important to know that but you also have to know that that's a part of that process. Okay

[07:35]

It's hard to say fail just because there you can't exactly

[07:39]

But as a producer you do want to have very high standards for yourself to kind of reach it all the way till the end as far as it can go

[07:45]

Sure a lot of times producers don't know when to pull out. That's funny

[07:50]

They don't know when to pull out of a project. Yeah, where there can be times where it's just things are not working out

[07:55]

You know some investors pulled out actors turnovers too many things are happening

[08:00]

But you don't want to disappoint people right? So you just keep going and going but at some point actually the damage is so big

[08:07]

That you actually end up burning all your bridges at the time. It's not a failure

[08:11]

Sure actually to be like you know what this project's not working. I'm so sorry. Well, yeah you because

[08:16]

With this process it's like many

[08:20]

contributions to the final and result so you cannot you can reevaluate

[08:24]

Again script phase to then pre-production and then production like there are many points when you can look at and assess and say

[08:31]

I don't like where the ship is going now like let's pull out and

[08:36]

Moving on I think that's smart and great advice because I think sometimes people just like even with screenwriting for example

[08:42]

They're like well I started it. I'm gonna finish to the end even though they know it's faulty and have full of problems

[08:47]

And I think there's there's some merit to that because I think finishing something's great

[08:50]

But like it's not costing except just time right

[08:55]

There've been projects where I was writing like I liked the idea I started it

[08:59]

I dabbled at it, but it's not I'm not gonna go through with that and that's fine

[09:03]

And I so I think that's really interesting on the amazing side that I never thought of it that way

[09:06]

Yeah, actually there was a very big project that in the end

[09:09]

I actually think that if I would have made it put an end to the project when I had the opportunity to

[09:15]

Even though at the time it feels so you feel like you're disappointing everybody

[09:18]

Disappointing the actors and director and you feel like you know

[09:21]

I'm gonna do everything I can to make it move forward

[09:23]

But in the end of the day the what ended up happening is the the budget doubled

[09:27]

Which is not a good thing to do as a producer?

[09:30]

You know everything that had to be taken into account and it up actually costing me way more

[09:35]

In regards to so much more that for me that I didn't feel like it was a successful project

[09:41]

Even though we got it somewhere and that's what I meant by like failure is that but those are the decisions that I've

[09:47]

Learned from the most well. Let's talk about a successful project. That's yeah HBO Max right now

[09:53]

It's gonna hand for Kaya one day in October

[09:56]

You haven't seen it go really right now at HBO Max go watch one day in October great great great

[10:03]

I mean did a wonderful work

[10:05]

And I was so blessed to read the first draft for the first highlight and see everything through so it's cool

[10:09]

I love one you can cheer you guys on it you guys are strong

[10:12]

I've always really respect your advice on

[10:14]

Oh, I'm creative to see that I know you know, but this the thing about creatives is like you build a good team around

[10:19]

Yeah, you can rely on even when you're working on other projects. So it's amazing

[10:23]

But let's go to producing a movie because you're the second female filmmaker I spoke to today that film during a war

[10:30]

But we'll get to that in a second. Yeah, but let's talk about one day in October. Yes

[10:34]

harrowing emotional, I mean all the fields

[10:38]

big premiere for HBO and

[10:40]

Let's talk about the producing challenge because if we're gonna speak specifically on producing this the producing challenges of that project because it's

[10:47]

It's close to home a lot of issues going on in the world specifically with the the conflict

[10:53]

But keeping it filmmaker centric tell us a little bit about the you're producing experience on making that HBO Max show. Yes, of course

[11:02]

The producing experience and this has definitely been an emotional one which not always is a very emotional experience as a producer

[11:09]

So that definitely added a new element to it. I would say

[11:13]

One of the biggest challenges were for sure

[11:16]

Aside for the war let's move on just for that for a second

[11:18]

I'm just gonna put on my producers hat for a second is actually budget trying to budget a

[11:24]

TV series while you're actually in a war zone

[11:27]

There's so many things that even as a producer where you try to anticipate as many things as possible going in

[11:33]

You just can't anticipate it there is no way you don't know what that will mean for the project because you in one hand

[11:39]

You know that there's a possibility things will be shut down, you know contingencies and allocations, but a producer does its best when they keep to the you know

[11:47]

what you learn

[11:50]

From your experience on one day in October well when you're telling a story based on real story

[11:55]

There's also a lot more there's a lot more aspects to consider and also things that can you know whether it's life

[12:01]

Friits or things like that that again like what producers do by the way, which again see you aspect is we manage all of the contracts

[12:08]

Which is again so much fun, but it's a big part of the project is that everything has to be

[12:14]

Perfect so all of that

[12:16]

Honestly, it does add a huge challenge with all of the you know aspects of having real people involved

[12:22]

And also just making you know sometimes as a producer you have to remember to be very sensitive in a situation like that

[12:28]

So also, you know whether it's having psychologists on said or sure everyone's safety

[12:33]

There's there's just so much to consider in something like that and the responsibility is all on you

[12:38]

Probably one of the biggest challenges is is that trying to work out of a

[12:44]

I guess I don't know bunker is the right word, but trying to work out of a but you kind of

[12:49]

I mean, I remember having phone calls with you like yeah, I'm in the bunker. Yeah, like what and you know

[12:53]

So having to work out of that while you're trying to navigate everything and also make sure that everybody in the team is doing okay

[13:01]

That definitely was very challenging

[13:03]

There were moments that I was just like you know, you also have to take care of yourself honestly. Yeah, but

[13:09]

Yeah, I there was I was like I don't know if I'm built for this, you know

[13:14]

I don't know if this is the lifestyle I

[13:16]

Right you think of being a producer. We're gonna go on set make movies now you're in Israel filming a TV series

[13:22]

What I think was just some mind blowing and and you know

[13:26]

We spoke during this process was

[13:29]

You know you shot me at a shoot

[13:32]

You had to get out of the country. Let's talk about that for a second

[13:34]

So you're in the maybe just give us you're in the you know, you're in Israel you guys got to leave

[13:38]

Yeah, and the thing is though like planes were shut down. Yeah, and I'm one of the only I was one of the only like American producers

[13:44]

[13:46]

I was like I need first of all way more useful out of this country than in this country

[13:51]

So it was very important for me to leave um, but how do you leave?

[13:56]

So that was please take us or cuz that's there's a movie

[13:58]

No, yeah, that's by itself. Here's here's the thing though like when you're in it

[14:02]

It's so crazy the things that you're willing to do to just kind of like

[14:06]

You know, there's things that you would never imagine sure doing, but yeah, it was it was quite a journey. I

[14:12]

I found a couple of routes that would take me through Jordan

[14:16]

So you know, I didn't take anything with me

[14:19]

So I just want to slow it down because this is I'm super fasting so you're you realize you got to leave and you're trying

[14:24]

Other route it's not like physical routes, but ways to get out and you can't

[14:28]

So you're calling people they're doing favors. You there's you find a route through Jordan if you're

[14:34]

A foreign citizen. I mean there is roots to get you out

[14:38]

It's just a matter of you want to make sure that you get out as safely as possible, right?

[14:42]

And you know, and honestly there is neighboring countries that you know, it's all good and well

[14:47]

But again like just going through the process of getting there. You just want to make sure that you know

[14:52]

You're doing everything in a way that will actually get you out

[14:55]

So you know, and there's you have to make sure you have your visas

[14:59]

And there's a lot of things to go through, but you're doing it all within such a short amount of time

[15:03]

And you're trusting in strangers honestly. So describe it to us. So like you get on a bus

[15:07]

You get on like I want to know like

[15:10]

I got dropped off at a station that had a couple of people that were meeting together who

[15:15]

had a taxi that was driving us to

[15:18]

One of the Jordan entryways

[15:20]

Which so that took us about like two and a half hours. I didn't take anything with me

[15:25]

And also I was like I'm not even taking my weach sick with me obviously because you know, I don't know where I'm gonna end up

[15:30]

And now I'm gonna end up in different prisons because not everybody you know, I want to be not

[15:34]

Express experience mocks gange which they should yeah, so I ended up with a whole bunch of random people and

[15:41]

Really some some people from England front like yeah, just a whole bunch of us

[15:46]

And we ended up in the border. So that was it was a very long wait

[15:50]

That we were at the border. I remember that. I don't know. I don't know. It's so hot

[15:55]

And then we crossed the border

[15:57]

But there was a lot of little things happening like we had to give money to this guy and then we had to give money to this guy

[16:02]

And then there was I just strap myself up. That's pretty much with just cash

[16:07]

That's it that and my phone and my bag. Yeah, I'm like this is how I'm going sure

[16:11]

But yeah, it was it was very hot. It took us it took just at the border itself. I think it was like 10 hours

[16:16]

Was pretty crazy and then once we got onto the Jordan side. I didn't have my visa

[16:21]

Because I didn't get it on time. Yeah, so that was crazy

[16:24]

You know, just trying to figure it all out and everybody's like cramming by the windows and people are shouting

[16:28]

And I don't understand what anyone's saying on any I don't know any other language other than English. So

[16:32]

So that was fun and I'm like yeah, what do I do? Hi

[16:36]

So that was that and then you and you have to take a taxi out you can't walk out

[16:40]

It was there was a lot of things to like take the taxi to wear after that

[16:43]

You have to take the taxi all the way out of the entire like from the Jordan side

[16:47]

You have to take a taxi all the way out like pass the gate to you can't actually walk to the end of the all the way out

[16:52]

And then you have to take another taxi from there

[16:55]

To you the airport, but I actually had I everyone was like make sure when you buy a ticket

[17:00]

Give yourself as much leeway because it's going to be a really long process

[17:04]

So I actually had like 10 hours to kill at that point because I made sure that I gave myself like 20

[17:09]

Yeah, yeah, you want to yeah, so I actually went to I went and visited Jordan look at that beautiful actually

[17:16]

I had a it was everyone was really kind

[17:20]

And yeah, it was yeah, it was you know, but here's that's the thing and actually there was missiles flying

[17:27]

As I was taking off from Jordan

[17:29]

Yeah, you know you see like you know start shooting in the sky

[17:32]

But here's the thing though that's the thing is that everybody person to person are such beautiful people in this world

[17:37]

Really, it's just politics and ID and all of this is it's just really

[17:43]

It becomes opinions that sit on just the reality, but they're not the reality itself

[17:47]

So when you live the reality actually it gives you so much good perspective

[17:51]

And it's just adds a part of the storytelling because every person that I met

[17:55]

Such amazing you know beings from everyone from the Jordan side to the is all of it all sides as individuals

[18:02]

We're just trying to help people. That's it. That was my experience and you just wanted to film a TV show

[18:06]

And the other small doubt which is amazing, but you know it's obviously we're so happy you're safe and you got through it

[18:12]

I remember you know, I'm pinned to needles sweeten here when you got back online and incredible, but yeah

[18:17]

This is because we have a project and you don't want me gone

[18:19]

Now

[18:22]

I had the same thing I've been signing contracts before wars. I signed contracts. You know

[18:28]

We like something happens to you, you know, so now you get home and you go to the LA premiere. This was super dope

[18:35]

You're in LA. Yeah, you premiere at a gala an event and

[18:41]

Like I don't know the next thing I see on Instagram. You're like talking to scenes feelberg

[18:45]

So like what's up with that?

[18:47]

I wasn't incredible. It's a little bit so that's all the hard work pays off right and this is these are the moments

[18:54]

The moments like where you have someone like Steven Spielberg who said I've watched your show

[18:59]

You you pause for a second and you say okay

[19:03]

I'm in a room with artistic geniuses right now, you know, I my you know

[19:08]

You your dream is to have someone look at your work. Yeah, and pat you at the back for it

[19:12]

But it's not an expectation. It's your dream right so you're sitting there and you you get something that you've always

[19:17]

Wanted to hear without having to dream it

[19:20]

The reality comes to you, but it comes to you at a time that you don't you don't know it's come, you know

[19:25]

So those are the moments where you're like wow everything that I've worked for it's not that it came to this moment

[19:30]

But it's gonna make me want to wait further than this moment. Oh, absolutely

[19:35]

This is how I divide in general anything in life right there's like the five-year marks right let's just say in film

[19:41]

It's a bit different, but like you know, where's the first bag of five acts and right?

[19:45]

But like the first half is where you really try to get from zero

[19:48]

Yeah, like you know the 50 mark and then you go from then you cross over and you go from the 50 to the next mark

[19:54]

Which is this is your opportunity

[19:56]

To take the successes that you've made yeah, and to continue driving yourself till you come to the point where then you're obviously a millionaire and then whatever

[20:04]

But just dressing great swag of course because that fit is amazing

[20:08]

Look like a Targaryen

[20:11]

Lioness with the hair

[20:13]

Three dragons you do at home right on you do you're taking care of my dragon my dragons

[20:18]

Everyone has their own Steven Spielberg in the world. Yeah, right where they have their

[20:22]

That but they do they come and they show up not because you

[20:26]

Navigate yourself for that moment, but because you navigate and something that you really care about something that really matters to you

[20:32]

Sure, something that you can hone in on your talents and then you end up there because of all the hard work that you put in there

[20:37]

So and John I know that I'm not your steelburg

[20:41]

But you know, you've also had all of those you had those moments as well

[20:44]

Sure

[20:45]

And it's amazing to great as a friend to have watched you as well and we love watching you and we're gonna watch more of kai

[20:51]

I'm we're gonna have you back a lot because I just love to talk to you and you have so much insight and you

[20:55]

Even just like personally she's amazing and I just really do give some of the best advice

[21:00]

So we're gonna have you back on and just talk you know more even just beyond producing. Let's just figure some other stuff out

[21:06]

Of course we can talk about world problems

[21:07]

So no problems cooking. I love cooking would be great whatever you know, I would love that

[21:13]

Nexplication spots. Yeah, and what's next for kaiya? So we will have her on a sap next to talk next chapter after the seabed spielberg

[21:21]

Meeting and I wish you all the success again everyone go watch one day in October at HBO max. It's great and Fox entertainment and Fox entertainment

[21:30]

Alright kai. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. All right. Thanks for seeing

[21:34]

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[21:40]

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[21:42]

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[21:46]

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Think Like a Producer: Strategy, Creativity & Real-World Lessons | Kinolime Podcast Ep 28

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