What SpongeBob Can Teach You About Writing Characters | Kinolime Podcast Ep 54
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Hosted byDanny Murray
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With guestMr. Lawrence
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Show Notes
Mr. Lawrence has been writing for SpongeBob SquarePants for more than 20 years while also bringing one of the show's most iconic characters, Plankton, to life. So how do you keep a world and its characters fresh, funny, and true to themselves after hundreds of episodes?
In this episode of the Kinolime Script-to-Screen Podcast, Danny Murray sits down with Mr. Lawrence to break down the writing behind one of the most iconic animated shows of all time. From writing visually and building comedy around character dynamics to creating new story structures, Mr. Lawrence shares what he's learned from decades inside the SpongeBob writers' room.
Together, they discuss what makes SpongeBob's characters so enduring, how writers can keep familiar characters from going stale, why character dynamics are just as important as individual characters, and how the writers use everything from classic films and fairy tales to their own real-life experiences for inspiration.
Mr. Lawrence also explains what it's like to write and voice Plankton, how the character has evolved over the years, how writing Plankton for a feature film changed his approach, and the process he uses to get into a story before facing the blank page.
Whether you're writing animation, developing long-running characters, or simply trying to make your own scripts funnier and more memorable, this conversation is packed with insight from one of SpongeBob's longtime writers.
Full Transcript
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Just, you know, to make sure in case anybody goes, that's not him.
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It's him.
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We're going to be talking about SpongeBob screenwriting and I guess the amazing crew that kind of brought
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you here.
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Hey, everybody.
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Today we are here at the KinoLime Script-A-Screen podcast with none other than Mr. Lawrence.
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We are so excited to have you today.
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Just, you know, to make sure in case anybody goes, that's not him.
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It's him.
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We're going to be talking about SpongeBob screenwriting and I guess the amazing crew that kind of brought
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you here.
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You know, this is a screenwriting podcast and where specifically you kind of lie in this
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is really almost unlike any other writer where you're writing, you know, you wear a lot
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of hats on SpongeBob and all the other subsidiary shows and you're writing for characters that
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you, that, you know, you voice.
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What do you think specifically makes these characters?
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And I guess from a writing perspective, from a performance perspective, what has made
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these characters classic for so long?
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What seems like, what now?
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Three different generations of young adults and kids watching this.
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You know, it has to come.
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I mean, first of all, it's that everybody continues to find it interesting, which is crazy
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all by itself, you know, just the fact that why this show over other pieces, other things,
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but we also always, in all the things, pretty much all the things I've done, I don't consider
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it a family show or a kid show, I just consider it a comedy show.
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So to me, it's like we're throwing, you know, things really hard in the writer's room
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and myself when I'm doing stuff that, you know, won't necessarily be in the episodes
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because they're, you know, because it sometimes goes to adult or it just goes too far,
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tonally, it's off for what we do.
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But we work like comedy writers do.
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I started in improv comedy and stand up years ago and so I came from a performance place,
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but I also was a cartoonist so I came from that place.
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So that's another thing.
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I mean, I think in this, I mean, there's things that are specific to me and then there's
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things that are specific to the show itself.
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And one of those things is that it's coming from a cartoonist perspective almost entirely.
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I think a lot of shows better, for better or for worse, are about coming from a writer's
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complete screenwriter's perspective, which isn't necessarily always,
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lends itself to being visual.
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And I, so when I'm writing something, I kind of, even if I'm not actually drawing it,
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I could.
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So it's sort of like goes in between as, you know, is this something someone could pull off?
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You know, in a drawing, am I giving over to a storyboard artist something that they're going to,
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you know, strangle me for?
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Or is this something I'd want to do, you know, that I'd want to actually do if I was boarding it?
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And, you know, in the past cases, I was, but that's part of the process for me is coming
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straight out of a visual place first.
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And then dialogues always something that I work out after I kind of have already
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see kind of pictures in my head of how that's how it's, how it's going to work visually.
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That's always what we're saying in the room is always like, well, that's a really funny
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concept, but how is that visual for us?
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How's that going to lend itself to, to gags?
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How's it going to lend itself to the kind of humor that we do on our show,
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which, you know, isn't done as much as it used to be.
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We do a lot of slapstick and we do a lot of, you know, double talk and, you know,
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things that were more associated with the old theatrical cartoons, even more than shows today,
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because a lot of them are like animated sitcoms.
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And I think we're a sitcom too, but I think we're a different species of sitcom,
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because we're always coming at it from the visual end.
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And it goes through a process where more artists get involved and add more visuals to it before
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it's finished for everyone to see.
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So it goes through a process, a great process where things get added, you know, and perfected and
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tweaked and, you know, edited down to what we think will be the best paste
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you know, a story, but also will be the funniest, which is kind of what kind of wins in our
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room all the time is what's the funniest thing.
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And then I guess on that specific note, is there a, is there a specific structure to the room?
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And I guess like, what do you see specifically?
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You know, I imagine I can't even fathom how many writers and different writers' assistance
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have probably gone through the, you know, the SpongeBob writers room over the last 20 plus years.
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What specifically do you see that that works in the room, what structure, what kind of temperament
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from new writers breeds success in that room?
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First of all, it hasn't been as many as you would think.
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Almost everybody has a background on the show. Like no one just gets a job on the show as a writer
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and then you're a writer on the show. Everybody has to kind of come up through the ranks in a way.
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Almost everybody except me because I already, I had already been there with Steve,
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Helen Bergen, Derek Dreyman at the beginning because we were from Rocco.
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So we had similar sensibilities and then I was the only writer on the show at the time,
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kind of bridging the gap between the storyboard guys and the writing department because I had
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done both. And in this case when people come in, like I said, we have, it's been, you know,
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it's kind of a small group, the little brain trust there is of all the series because we all,
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the group all created, you know, the Patrick show and Camp Coral as well. And we weigh in on the movies,
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you know, I wrote the plankton movie, you know, so there's lots going on.
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And so we come into contact with other writers that are come into the fold for the movies and things
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like that, but the show, the actual show itself with, you know, the nucleus of everything is really
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just a small group. But when everybody comes in, they sort of are in a way, you know, forced,
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you know, in a hazing sort of way to go along with how we already do it. And there's a lot of
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things we say, well, we don't do that. That's not our show. That's not how we would handle that.
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And sometimes we could just feel it. We're writing something we all think is right. And then it'll
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just occur to us as we're writing at a certain point, oh, that's not really our show. That's
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somebody else's show. And then we find a way to make it ours again, because it's a visual show. And
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because also the characters, I mean, now so much easier to write the show in some ways, it's harder
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because you've got to come up with new things. And it's been on for, you know, 26 plus years.
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We're all used to it now because also the characters are the characters. They're very solidly
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constructed at this point, where we know we can stretch them a little bit, go over here,
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but then come back as long as you, you know, we know that the dynamics of the characters are all
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going to what they're going to be almost. We kind of know, like you have a friend, like, you know,
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who you'd say, oh my god, wait, my friend sees this, you know, my friend's going to go ballistic
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over, you know, this new ice cream or whatever the situation is. And that's what it is with this.
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As if they were our good friends, we know who all these characters are and we know exactly how
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they would react. And then we know if we're thinking that way, that's what the audience is also,
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also knows them because they've been watching them like we have for all this time. So you can't,
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you know, you can't betray that too far. You got to stick, you got to stay to what's true to
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character. Even though you can have someone change, you kind of want to have them snap back a bit
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after that. How do you keep these characters fresh across, you know, hundreds of episodes and
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multiple generations when you kind of know what you expect from them. And every episode you want
[08:58]
to make sure that, you know, you also bring something new to these characters.
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Yeah, that's the challenge, right? That's that's the trick.
[09:07]
Because sometimes we feel like, oh, wow, I don't have anything today. I've got nothing in my head.
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I've literally had moments where we're in a meeting and I got nothing and it's me next. I have to
[09:18]
have something, you know, and I go, no, I got, I'm sitting there and I'm like, okay, so, so Doug,
[09:23]
what do you got? And I'm like, yeah, let me go to the bathroom. I go to the bathroom and somehow
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miraculously in that time, I something, you know, because of adrenaline, boom, something appears.
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And I come back and go, how about this one? Yeah, how about this idea? I was, I was tinkering with
[09:42]
this idea since I went to the bathroom. And that becomes, I mean, that's the, that only comes
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from me doing this for years and years and years and knowing who these characters are that I could
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actually, you know, conjure something and sometimes you just blank, you know, as a fart. Sometimes it's
[10:03]
just, it's not happening that day. But I, especially when you have characters that work and the
[10:13]
dynamics work, you really are unlimited. You really can come up with there are, there are more
[10:19]
ideas out there. Even though we, you know, have stepped on ourselves a few times, what we've done,
[10:25]
a episode that's so close to another one from five seasons ago that we just forgot about, you
[10:31]
know, and we're like, oh, that's really close. I wonder if anybody's going to notice, you know,
[10:34]
always hear writers that, you know, work on shows like our eight or 10 seasons that are, you
[10:40]
know, so stretched for ideas by the end of the show. I can't even imagine over 20 plus seasons,
[10:45]
you know, yeah. And then the Patrick show made it even crazier because that show kind of takes,
[10:50]
you know, you need more jokes in that show than SpongeBob on most. We do more surrealism and we,
[10:57]
you know, we kind of pace it up quicker and the stories are a little shorter for the gags to,
[11:02]
you know, to sort of blossom. And that's another one where the board guys on that show write actually
[11:07]
are really the writers on that show. And then the, the guys who, the, the screen writers sort of
[11:14]
that are on the show help, help along. But on SpongeBob, we've been writing on scripts for a while now.
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Is there, I guess, just across generations or over the seasons, has your philosophy over
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how you write and develop these characters and these episodes changed and has it changed maybe
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four different generations has just changed based on the volume and, you know, the skill at which
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you've kind of built the, the shows. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's probably if there's changes in it,
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it's something that's changed in me. That's part that becomes part of it, you know, that write,
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what you know thing is a real thing. And you, as you know, and it's, it's about seeing what I see
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every day, you know, we don't really get too specific on SpongeBob because we're in another place
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and what have you and we have to do, you know, generally upbeat stories, you know. So we don't
[12:10]
get into the things that are, you know, because it's a comedy show, of course, that way.
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But we don't get caught up in that stuff. We sort of just, I mean, as time has gone on,
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whatever, I think I'm really similar to the way I used to write. I think it's, you know,
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I'm better at it now. I can pinpoint things and I can pace things pretty. My brain does it without
[12:34]
me thinking it through sometimes. I can just map out a show pretty fast now. And trying still to come
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up with not just new ideas in it or the whole idea itself is new. But I'm often trying to
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piece together a story that lends itself to being a different structure. So that the structures
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themselves of the episode are not the same one as the one you just saw. So they're, so it's not just,
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it doesn't try to, it doesn't move along the same way each time. And it's fun to be able to
[13:10]
come up with a new one. Oh, I haven't really done this this way before, you know, and certain
[13:17]
shape, you know, where you come up with something that's just unusual. Just sort of creates a nice
[13:23]
setting for comedy, you know, but you know what I mean? Like structurally, certain episodes are
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different than others, you know, certain episodes hang on one particular thing or theme.
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But what I like is when the, like I said, the whole, the pacing of the whole episode and the
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the way we tell that story isn't, is it, is unique all by itself and almost a standalone
[13:52]
some of the story. You can't do it without all of them that way all the time. Because we have a lot of
[13:57]
tropes and we have a lot of structures. We've used over and over and over again and they work.
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And they're easy to put new stories into. But so that's why I'm always, you know,
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surprised, but also it's something I strive to do is to try to create new structures.
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If anything, just to keep myself from being bored because otherwise I'm writing the same kind
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of thing all the time. Can you talk a bit more about specifically when you say you're kind of
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changing structures within a show that has, you know, so many seasons and such specific tropes
[14:37]
and ways in which episodes are constructed. What do you mean by your changing structures?
[14:44]
Well, some episodes about SpongeBob will be, some, you know, SpongeBob is having a problem
[14:50]
of some kind. Obviously some conflict of some kind of work. It's having a problem with Mr.
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Krabs that he needs to rectify or is having a problem with Squidward. He needs to rectify or
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it's a show about Squidward having a problem with Patrick and SpongeBob that we've set these up
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over time. But what it means, I guess, eventually for these different sort of a shows that some of the
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shows don't have the normal sort of ABC or A to B kind of a structure to them because the story
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itself sort of, you know, lends it. We did an episode I'll pull out on my head on
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Camp Coral that just stuck in my head all of a sudden where it was like the Roshaman Kira Kurosawa
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film where it shows the different points of view of the story. We don't know what happened. We
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just know something occurred and now here's the stories explaining it. So we had an outhouse explode
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at Camp Coral and Krabs was trying to get to the Krabs was trying to get to the bottom of it and
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find out who did it. And so everybody was telling their story of what they saw or what and you know,
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so the whole thing becomes like a little murder mystery, you know, to the end, you know, not a murder,
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but you know, I mean, a mystery where you find out who did it at the end and it all. So that whole
[16:11]
structure was about that. It was more about the structure of the story than it even was. I mean,
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the characters were in and we know who they are, but it was, it was the characters were sort of at the
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were carrying out that story structure. And that's the kind of stuff that I did an episode
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called My Leg, which was a shot show that was just about Fred, the guy who yells My Leg.
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And that was a weird one because I and it was another one I was really happy with the way that
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structure came out because the whole episode was how many times can we get Fred to say My Leg out
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loud. And so we had to create a story. I had to create a story that let that happen. Let this
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joke play out. And that's a weird structure to say I'm going to I'm doing this for the joke.
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And now I'm going to put the characters and make them fit into it. Other ones come right out
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of character. And it's a special thing for that. I've written a lot of shows where SpongeBob
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loses something and has to go find it. And that's another structure. So there's ones we could probably
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put on a board and see how many there are of the show that we've used over and over again. And then
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the nice nice thing is when we've used one once, there's two ways to go with that one is a new
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structure creates like everybody going, oh, I'm going to use that one again. You know, I'm going to
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next time I'm going to do one that has a different story, but same kind of structure. And then
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there's the ones I really love which are the ones that they can't and we can't do it again. It's
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it was just for that one story. And it's a it's a little jewel onto itself and you can't you can't
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duplicate it. And I love that too. So it's really yeah, it's really becomes fun. Is there I guess
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just on the rush them on yeah structure episode? Is there a specific film? Whether it's through
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structure or just different inspiration from the film that you want to add in to an episode or have
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you know baked into the structure of an episode that you haven't done yet that you're like, wow,
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I would love to do SpongeBob. That kind of story. Yeah. Yeah, I guess there's I mean, we've done we
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we're always thinking about movies. We always in fact will remove things. We'll say that's too much like
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that story. You know, we can't do that. I just did, we just did a snowy yellow and the the
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seven jellies and that was you know, directly taken from you know, the old feature, you know, the
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the Disney feature and we just you know, you can't get too into it because it's Disney, but you can
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get close to those things and where it kind of reminds you of all those things that you already know
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from that story from the fairy tales and the fairy tales have been a spot that we've been going back
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to and literary things like Moby Dick like stuff that old cartoons used to do were sort of like
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incorporating it could because it became another great place to get stories from like let's
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plankton and the beanstalk we did you know, so it's like and then you can you know,
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and crabs is the giant and he's the little one and then we made Sponge I made SpongeBob the
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the gold the goose that lays the the the golden crabby patties and so you know, it's just
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stuff like that makes it fun because it's just we're being spoofy, but then everyone knows
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the character so you can you can play with them in this way like they're playing a part and have fun
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with it that way which is a whole nother structure you know, whole nother way to to handle stuff.
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I'm trying to think if there's any other ones that we haven't done or that was that we said no to.
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I mean there's you know there's other movies too I mean you know, I'm sure the shining pops up
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even in this 2001 you know, old older you know classic old Hollywood kind of movies you know
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and little things that you probably wouldn't know oh that's what we're doing that specifically
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because it's because once it's it's in bikini bottom and we kind of re you know,
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a restructure it the way we do you wouldn't in some cases you wouldn't even know we're
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imitating that thing it's not like the Simpsons where they directly will imitate it directly make
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fun of it you know and do because they want you to know that that's what that is and sometimes we're
[20:37]
just you know we're like as long as we know we're fine yeah it doesn't matter it's really about
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what gets us going in the writers room too if everybody isn't really on board like if most of us
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aren't on board in the room on something we pass that we pass and move on and some stories have
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sat around for a long time and never got made and then they finally one day the group gets it like
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we'll get some little something that gets us into the story that we didn't have before and we're
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like ah that's the way you know that story okay let's do that one during the early seasons
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were there any like in the writers room specific problem areas before the story was was fully
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actualized and you completely understood all these characters and structures that this world
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could live in what were like the biggest problem points that you know you you unlocked what
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once like you finally understood them that you know has made this story home for as long as it has
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you means at the right the beginning right the before wait before uh well it started with a bible
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like a lot of our shows do and the bible often has things that you use and then it has things that
[21:43]
once you start writing and putting stuff together and boarding you realize oh that's not what I
[21:49]
thought it was going to be like visually that's not going to work the way I thought it was or story wise
[21:55]
that's a little out there or you know it doesn't fit in or you know like I said you constantly
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especially once once you get a room you know a room full of guys doing stuff and gals doing
[22:06]
stuff together there's um uh you have new minds working on it all together you know it's not just
[22:14]
your head anymore so so so things pop up that you never would have come up with yourself and you're
[22:18]
just going how did you wow that's perfect like why didn't I see why didn't I see that you know um
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but I think at the beginning um our biggest concern was the dynamics that were in the bible
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making those actually work for real and standing up for real and I just remember doing a lot of like
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acting out the characters you know in the room um because they were brand new and so that got us into
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it a little bit more was really standing up and saying he he would talk like this or he would do
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this you know we it wasn't just writing down words it was actually physically standing there and
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kind of trying to embody the characters in a way um which I still do um and it's still part of our
[23:05]
you know we still all do the voices you know you still you know you're too you're maybe
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Patrick you talk like this you know and uh you know if you're talking like Sandy you're talking
[23:14]
like this it like everybody does the voices when we're pitching gags and pitching dialogue and
[23:20]
things like that so that was for me that that was one of the things that I that's been like might
[23:26]
sort of my specialty I guess if I have a specialty it's characters uh creating characters and then
[23:33]
creating creating dynamics between because because some characters don't work well with others
[23:39]
that they just don't do anything um certain characters it took took took us a long time to decide
[23:46]
oh yeah Sandy and plankton should know each other because they're both scientists you know that
[23:52]
took us years for us to figure that out we've just kept those guys separately mostly and then we brought
[23:58]
and then that's what brought it into more of this is a community where everybody kind of knows
[24:02]
each other and we over time I think we've almost inter almost every characters interacted with almost
[24:09]
every other one uh mostly because we had sort of we you know we have this luxury of time which most
[24:15]
shows don't get um we were it's one in one way it's a luxury because you're like oh I have all this
[24:21]
time in other way as you go as you know we don't know if the show's going season to season they don't
[24:26]
say well you're gonna go for the next five years never we still don't know the answers to those
[24:31]
questions um we just look back and go geez look how long we've you know been here but but all those
[24:39]
things are factors in us having time to smooth out stuff but that's what I remember being at the
[24:46]
beginning in fact the one episode uh I remember me and Stephen Derek banging out um in the writers
[24:53]
room one of the first ones I remember where I was getting excited because I went yes this is
[24:58]
feeling like something it's starting to feel like it because at first we're sitting there going
[25:01]
who's gonna watch this show like is anyone gonna a kid's gonna care about gags or this little
[25:06]
sponge guy you know um who who's gonna care and and but on that episode which was uh naughty
[25:13]
nautical neighbors it was called uh it's the one where squid word is in the middle of the friendship
[25:19]
between the two of them and he decides because he's tired of them being friends and commiserating
[25:26]
he sabotages without the two of them knowing he sabotages their friendship and he makes them
[25:31]
um he he makes them believe the other one has a problem with with the other one so he makes a
[25:38]
fight that isn't there and then he has to deal with them separately and there's that that whole
[25:43]
dynamic but that that idea was the first time we saw squid we're doing the kind of thing he
[25:51]
would be doing aside from being uh annoyed that he has you know that that uh he has a ter- the
[25:57]
job he doesn't like at the crusty crab this was no he's just at home sitting around and this is
[26:02]
what this guy you know does you know this is this guy is so annoyed with these two characters he's
[26:07]
going to sabotage their their lives basically it's not there you know what I mean uh sabotage them
[26:15]
and that and then of course SpongeBob had to be angry and Patrick had to be angry and they're
[26:21]
angry at each other and then squid words loving in the middle so that that one show created
[26:27]
a dynamic that that we were just like oh we got these three now we know who these three guys are
[26:32]
and and believe it or not that was still a struggle to go through and figure out how how are they
[26:40]
going to relate to each other even though we know these two like each other this guy's got a problem
[26:44]
you know whatever it is that there there were shows like that that that solidified for us right at
[26:51]
the beginning sitting there in the room sandy at the tree dome also solidified who sandy was
[26:57]
and her situation in the place and there's a lot of that's really what I remember the most that
[27:04]
I know I'm sort of sounded like a broken record but it really was about
[27:08]
character dynamics and making those work because if they didn't work the comedy wasn't going to work
[27:15]
and then we knew that if at least that doesn't work then people aren't going to
[27:19]
connect with these characters at all they had to connect they had to really connect with because
[27:23]
it's not just they always say it's it's about characters it's all about connecting with those
[27:28]
characters but the other thing they don't you don't get into as much as that the dynamics of the
[27:35]
characters themselves you know with each other you can have great characters all individuals but
[27:40]
they have to interact you're not interacting with that character it's a show you know they have to
[27:45]
interact with people on you know on their level in that place and that's what is that's to me the
[27:52]
hardest thing to do is to make it so that the conflicts all make sense and there's a satisfaction
[28:01]
to those characters existing next to each other that you that you not only relate to it you love
[28:09]
that this guy lives next to that guy is there a specific setting within that world that at least
[28:19]
for you always breeds your favorite comedy in the show whether that's like two specific characters
[28:24]
working together in a specific setting what is maybe like your most problem area setting or
[28:31]
characters working together and what's your favorite to make comedy from usually problems come up
[28:36]
is because we're trying to do too much in an episode we realize we got 11 minutes in this episode if
[28:42]
it's not a special or it's not a movie or something else and we end up piling too much on and we
[28:47]
realize ah we need to simplify this which is another place where new dynamics and structures can
[28:52]
come from but as far as uh so yeah i'm trying to think there's anything that's i mean we figured it out
[29:00]
there's certain characters which i won't say because fans love certain characters there's certain
[29:06]
characters we we don't do as much just because we didn't find new paths for their dynamics if the
[29:13]
characters two one note you might not see them again um but other characters we were able to do more
[29:19]
with uh over time and and i fall in love with certain things you know uh because we've been doing
[29:28]
it for so long too but i love when the characters are together and they're not doing their normal
[29:36]
thing like like for some reason there's a party and squid words there and plankton's there
[29:42]
you know what i mean everybody's like on an equal level and they're not doing their
[29:46]
nor he's not trying to steal the formula squid words not is a comeogen but he's tolerating the
[29:52]
situation you know he's there and he's like all right well it's better than being home by myself
[29:56]
you know so it's that kind of dynamic when they're all just being human sitting uh around with
[30:05]
each other i love those moments a lot um and we don't do a lot of those because we need to keep
[30:11]
to story there's the specials and uh uh longer episodes are usually where we can get the whole
[30:16]
group together we can't really do it on every episode get every character in there i am very
[30:21]
fascinated about like when you're writing these characters do you feel inherently
[30:29]
that when you're writing a character that you voice like right do you naturally
[30:36]
feel like you understand those characters more than say characters you're writing for that you're
[30:40]
not voicing what's kind of relationship between how you write for characters that you're actually
[30:46]
going to perform as compared to ones that you're not yeah i i i don't know if it's that much
[30:52]
different than because you kind of have to understand all the characters i'd say whatever
[30:57]
to show you're on you know um so it's not that uh that you don't have an understanding you pretty
[31:03]
much have a pretty good understanding of it but when you play the part it's definitely more
[31:09]
personal so you so you which is sort of an instinctive thing you're not trying to uh to do it more
[31:18]
it's because you play him and over time you go oh no i mean like again plankton is a lot more
[31:23]
complex than he used to be when we started uh he was just a megalomaniacal little you know uh jerk
[31:30]
and we've but because he was married and had and had you know has the whole
[31:36]
mad scientist thing going and and want to take over the world and that kind of stuff it made him
[31:40]
interesting and we were because of time forced to make him more interesting because because uh otherwise
[31:48]
you know uh run the risk of it all going stale on us you know and saying well you can't just you
[31:54]
and some shows do we've seen shows you know do just do the same thing over and over and over again
[31:58]
until it's until it runs out of gas you know and that's the that's the tough part is is making it
[32:05]
feel like still spontaneous and still sparky and crackly and and and and feel like uh feel good and
[32:12]
feel you know um uh you know it's still be funny yeah it's it's oh I mean in one way it's really
[32:20]
comforting and then the other way it's it's you're scared going oh how am I going to do this but
[32:25]
but then there's another side that goes yeah but I don't have to create that's why it's a nice
[32:31]
it's a nice playground for the shows that we're being continuing to do it gives us spaces to come
[32:37]
up with new characters and try it and see if we get a reaction from people or see if because most
[32:42]
of the reactions you know don't we don't see the reactions to the show for a while you know it's like
[32:48]
a year and a half or so before we see anybody uh mentioning it online or seeing if people like that
[32:54]
or whatever um so a lot of times it's really what the what the group likes it's what we respond to
[33:01]
and if we really like something and really like that character um we can keep bringing them back
[33:06]
and again and again um if we feel we have something interesting to say with it you know if we don't
[33:14]
it kind of becomes obvious right away so many shows at the beginning of the when we first did
[33:20]
we're putting stories down it was all about what happened to you when you were a kid you know what
[33:25]
what could we write into the show uh the rock bottom show came because I got not I got on the
[33:30]
wrong bus when I was a little kid and that was like big traumatic crazy thing that happened to me
[33:35]
and I told that story in the writer's room with everybody and we just instantly went oh yeah
[33:40]
that's we got to do that one you know so there's things like that where as soon as you hear
[33:45]
the idea of something that's that's real um the bit if you get something that's that actually
[33:53]
happened to you that's even more from a writing standpoint and from a performing standpoint um
[34:00]
now it's now it's personal and that's what it is and that's what it is too with you know with
[34:04]
plankton for sure I mean I get my you know I can get frustrations out playing him quick break from
[34:09]
the episode everything that we talk about on this podcast character story funding your own films
[34:15]
all of it is geared towards you actually putting it into practice so here's your big chance
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keynote lines 2026 frame by frame shorts competition opens for submission July 27th put it in your
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calendars and then the 2026 NXT national high school screenplay scholarship program returns this fall
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keynote line exists for one reason only not just to talk about these films but actually help you make
[34:38]
them so whether you're a veteran this is your 100th screenplay or you're writing your very first
[34:43]
we want to hear your stories go to keenoline.com slash competitions check the link below
[34:49]
thanks for your time let's get back to the episode. I can use that character to
[34:57]
you know express stuff in the writing that then I will you know back up in the performance and
[35:05]
that's a funny thing too because sometimes I'm like who wrote this crap you know like I'm looking at
[35:10]
this going why did I say that that doesn't that doesn't flow out nicely even though I already
[35:15]
said it in the room when I was writing with myself um sometimes it's just it's it's a it's that
[35:22]
creator process you just have to keep watching it back and forth so it's a nice it's nice to be able
[35:28]
to write something it goes on the conveyor belt away and then in a month I'm in the recording booth
[35:35]
you know reading all the uh reading all the stuff and with the group and we're all looking at it
[35:41]
you know so you get like another you know you get another situation where everybody is sort of
[35:46]
like looking at what you just did you know you got the writers room going over it now you got the
[35:50]
critique of everybody who's reading it and trying to make a sense of what you wrote you know and
[35:57]
and make it and trying to hit all the comedy that you put in there for plankton right because
[36:04]
you just wrote in you know voice acting the plankton movie how does say writing for plankton in the show
[36:14]
compared to you know an entire feature film like what specifically did you have to change in your
[36:20]
philosophy about how you write this character for you know such a longer format well I think for
[36:28]
that movie the big thing was I wanted a show where we're Karen kind of takes over plankton's position
[36:36]
and she spoilers and she uh and so so it so it's forcing a change in plankton and it made him have to
[36:48]
you know unscrew his his valve a little bit and go the other way in a way he usually doesn't go
[36:55]
um and I think that's especially because it was a movie you have to have a bigger story a bigger plot
[37:01]
a bigger you know a bigger amount of things going on and so we needed plankton to care about Karen
[37:09]
in a way that doesn't maybe maybe necessarily come off in the show the way he is because
[37:14]
there are a bickering funny couple we needed a real moment for him to go no he's actually you know
[37:22]
cares about this this computer a lot and isn't loved with this computer and and when he when the
[37:28]
the part when it's gone he's he's he's he can't be you know um he loses it so so that became
[37:37]
and also in the movie it kind of showed his background and where he came from his hillbilly family
[37:43]
which we've already touched on in the show but this just got to reinforce all that stuff it's a
[37:46]
bigger scope it's a bigger scale and then of course the whole thing in the movie when especially
[37:51]
when you're working with other people other collaborators other board guys bringing in stuff you're
[37:56]
saying to him yeah that's really funny but that's not his character and so holding onto his character
[38:05]
while letting it almost change into something else it still had to be you know he loses his empathy
[38:11]
in that uh or he gains empathy I should say in that movie and changes his personality um but we had
[38:20]
to show off that even though he comes to that conclusion at the end of the movie and and it goes
[38:25]
that way for him that he's still the same personality he was before he's still got the same you
[38:31]
know uh problems he's still got the same narcissism he's still got the same you know um desires um
[38:38]
uh that doesn't change that but now it's better between him and Karen you know what I mean
[38:44]
that's going well he's still you know jerk who's gonna try to take over the world but now his
[38:49]
relationship is is better you know so um so you move him just enough to make that happen you know
[38:56]
and then come back uh and we haven't been you know I think we've done more maybe over the years
[39:02]
maybe a little bit before the movie and afterwards where we show you know plankton and
[39:07]
Karen sort of having fun sometimes not just arguing over stuff but actually having relaxing
[39:12]
times together and you know uh it's sort of you know dates together and things like that date nights
[39:20]
you know um and I think that's another thing that if you're gonna be on longer then
[39:25]
people want to see that stuff it expands the world it expands their character and it makes everybody
[39:30]
kind of um surprised as they go along as long as again if as long as you don't change the characters
[39:37]
too much people will go on the ride for whatever you want to do with them I think um as long as
[39:44]
it's true to character and then and then yeah and of course it has to be funny too and has to be
[39:48]
interesting but but balancing those things out that's always a challenge to make it funny and make it
[39:55]
you know make a good story but uh you know the characters can't characters don't sound like
[40:02]
each other so you know you see that I'm sure we all see it in screenwriting stuff where all the
[40:06]
characters sound like it's the same person talking um even though it's you know I'm seeing 10
[40:11]
characters but they all sound like the same person um that's that's one of the hardest things to
[40:19]
you know differentiate is to make it so that each character truly speaks in his own voice so
[40:25]
that if you read the dialogue you go that's only you know that character would say that only I
[40:32]
know who it is I don't even have to see you know who it is I can tell um without the voice
[40:38]
doing it for you you know and that's always a challenge I don't think that ever becomes I know
[40:44]
none of this ever becomes easy it's always it's I look at each one as a challenge uh I'm writing a
[40:50]
new one right now as of this morning and uh and it's always that staring at the page and saying okay
[40:59]
where does this start how does this begin you know and um and we have it all figured out but
[41:05]
it's still until you start writing that script until you start figuring out exactly this guy says
[41:10]
this then he moves here then he does this until you start to actually block out what happens
[41:16]
it's really all up in the air even though you have an outline and you've got a lot of notes
[41:21]
that you took at the writers meeting you still have to pull this all together you still have to pull
[41:26]
all those elements and make it work and a lot of times you throw out stuff that you know uh
[41:33]
was seemed obvious seemed like you were gonna do it for sure in that meeting and it's like oh yeah
[41:38]
I'm doing this then when you get there in the script you know four pages and you're like that
[41:43]
doesn't work at all wow yeah two more questions for you again anything man you keep going whatever you
[41:49]
want thank you so much but this has been awesome um I guess when you like today for example when
[41:57]
yeah you know you've you have an outline you have an understanding of how you're gonna attack
[42:02]
the story but it's in front of you it's a blank page what's kind of your north star for what
[42:08]
you're thinking about before you write anything on that page is there something specifically that
[42:12]
always kind of guides you throughout like the 20 plus seasons you've been writing when you start
[42:17]
a new episode to me everybody writes differently they all get into stories differently um I'll look at
[42:23]
the outline usually we we we all go over it together all right the outline off of our notes and then
[42:29]
we all look at it one last time together and anybody has a chance to say hey I don't think you need
[42:35]
that beat before you go to here or hey the ending I had a better idea for the ending you know that
[42:41]
kind of stuff and we go through and think about it but then I take the instead of just starting to
[42:48]
write at the very next day I take a day to look at the notes to look at everything um and if there's
[42:55]
anything that I think would help me like a kind of a certain movie or a certain you know uh uh
[43:04]
a certain a nature documentary a you know some kind of some kind of art you know I do research and
[43:11]
development something to get me in the mood for that and so some some things I just did uh happens to
[43:18]
do with a pirate the one and I'm I'm writing right now and so I watched Pirates of the Caribbean
[43:25]
you know and I watched Treasure Island and I watched a bunch of different cartoons that had
[43:32]
dead had pirates in them just to you know not necessarily to um take those ideas and say I'm
[43:39]
gonna use that gag or something like that or whatever but just to get into that mood and uh things
[43:46]
I'd seen before I'll just gives a feeling of that you know whatever it is um that's usually how I
[43:53]
get into story there but when I get into the room and staring at the blank page what I really like
[43:59]
is is just like nothing going on you know I don't want any you can't be loud noises going on
[44:04]
you can't be you know I got any quiet to think and I and I get into it from the standpoint of um
[44:12]
really pretending I'm there so it's really sort of like stepping inside mentally into the
[44:19]
into the crusty crab or wherever the story is and saying okay and I even maybe even standing
[44:25]
blocking in it you're not in a way where I'm doing it you know like and you know marking off the
[44:30]
floor and and taking selfies of myself but where it's just it's it's it's a very mental sort of a
[44:37]
thing where I'm going around inside the place and then sort of looking at well what were you having
[44:42]
the you know what were you having this kitchen in the scene at the beginning you know how does this
[44:47]
scene start what's the funny little thing that happens but those moments of quiet when I'm trying
[44:54]
to figure out story and I'll just I mean I certainly have many times made myself really start
[44:58]
crying laughing where I just got to stop for a second and go oh my god that is so funny you know
[45:03]
I'm I want to tell everybody this joke you know I want to tell everybody this one little thing that just
[45:10]
I don't know where it came from you know it's like you're just you're writing and writing and all
[45:13]
of a sudden thing the perfect joke appears in front of you and you're like we never said that in
[45:20]
the writers room like we never would have thought of that you know that kind of stuff is so still
[45:24]
it gives me really a lot of joy and a lot of uh you know I'm just I get really excited from that
[45:30]
I can get a lot of energy from that kind of those feelings yeah it's so cool to sit and go I guess
[45:37]
just thinking about you today like you you've sat with all these characters for so long like I
[45:42]
can't even imagine how comfortable and it would be to I guess try to work with characters that
[45:49]
you know you have probably spent like how many ever you know tens of thousands of hours
[45:54]
thinking about all it just so cool to kind of envision writing from that point of view it's so
[46:00]
cool yeah it's a long it's it's it only would happen this way you know it only would happen in a show
[46:06]
where you've been doing it a long long time and I've written on other things I've done other
[46:11]
stuff I've done my own things but this uh this is the one everyone is still collectively wants
[46:20]
more of so at least for the time being you know you never know when you know but but but we do uh
[46:28]
there's like what I love is especially when we meet fans we go to the comic cons or I go you know
[46:35]
traveling abroad about it you know to meet people there's there's there's this collective thing where
[46:41]
you know the people know the characters as well as you do yeah and you're the one writing it you're
[46:46]
though I'm voicing it but they know it in a way that makes me feel like everybody I meet is sort
[46:52]
of related to me somehow it's a really strange feeling that somebody comes up and goes okay my
[46:58]
favorite episode was this and this happens and blah blah blah blah and going through it and and
[47:02]
they'll talk about the character like it's somebody they know and that's like uh that's where I
[47:06]
think oh yeah okay well we're probably doing not too bad if people are still relating to these
[47:12]
characters this way they get as excited as I am when I came like I told you before when I come up with
[47:18]
a great bit or a great joke or great you know situation for the characters to see them excited
[47:23]
that same way um it's sort of a kinship you know to the to the fans um and uh you know uh
[47:33]
a grateful and and still confused yeah I guess my my last question almost stems from a bit of that
[47:44]
but sure what do you think you've learned the most about yourself uh through your career writing?
[47:52]
hmm that's a good question what it makes you do is you really observing human behavior more
[48:00]
you know more closely than you might have been at at first you know as you get into it more
[48:07]
you're really spending more time thinking about exchanges you had with somebody at the store
[48:14]
or exchanges you had with your with your uh you know family um and or dynamics that happened or
[48:22]
something happened when you're a kid or but but also something that just happened you know two
[48:27]
minutes ago you know outside in the front yard or or in the bathroom or wherever I mean it kind
[48:33]
of teaches you to notice those moments and you know and and hopefully remember but more more
[48:41]
importantly write them down you know so you don't forget any of these things arts a challenge no
[48:47]
matter how you do it it's always it's always something new if it becomes stale and you're just doing
[48:52]
like this and as another one I'll just do that and have no real feeling for it anymore I don't see
[48:58]
really great shows coming out of that idea or that of that feel that kind of feeling of just you know
[49:03]
pomp pomp pomp pomp I'm sure there are I'm sure there are some that are made that way and everybody's
[49:08]
fine with it you know with it being that way but for me it's got to get emotional for me to to
[49:15]
feel like I'm part of what's happening that to feel like I actually um you know in some cases I
[49:20]
remember things that happened in the show that I did or said that plankton said and I go I'll
[49:26]
think back because it's a few years back that I actually said that to somebody and then I realized
[49:31]
no plankton said that in that one episode it wasn't me so it gets a little blurry at times I guess
[49:38]
what you learn is is that it's all um is to be an observer and to keep on um to to not get
[49:47]
stale in the way that you the way you think about things to keep keeping open mind and let new ideas
[49:55]
come in because otherwise you're gonna um you know you're gonna get tired of what you're doing in
[50:01]
one way I think that's another way why why we don't get tired of is because it's for us we're not
[50:08]
tired of it it's it's it's it's more that we're we just want to do a good job and we want to make
[50:13]
sure that everything we're doing now because you're always beaten yourself up you're always saying
[50:18]
to yourself uh I don't know if I'm good enough to do this I don't know if that's a good enough
[50:23]
idea for this show and I'm not sure if I'm doing justice to this you know uh project um but I
[50:31]
think that's what it is is to keep keep your keep the new ideas flowing and yeah keep yourself
[50:37]
informed of what's going on Doug thank you so much it's been absolutely wonderful to talk
[50:43]
story with you uh so great it's been Doug Mr. Lawrence it's been the Cunerlime Script
[50:48]
of Screen podcast he he he thanks so much for watching everyone let's make a movie together
[50:53]
take care bye if you got something out of today's podcast please share it with your filmmaking and
[50:58]
screen running community and hit subscribe it genuinely helps us keep making these we need them
[51:04]
and we'll see you in the next one
